HELP Any brake bleeding tricks????

[Injectedcutty]

Hey guys. So I had kinda forgotten about the whole front hub/brake growling issue on the cutlass until last week going to the car show. It's quiet until 55mph+ and it's an audible noise and vibration too.
Sure enough, I had my master cylinder to prop valve lines reversed as the pic motorheadmike saved the day. I swapped the lines yesterday and bled the front brakes.
Came home today and started on rear pass side, bled with one man kit as I didn't have a helper and bleeding the rear drums are a PITA anyway!!! Got all corners bled, no air that i could see. Start car and pedal goes to floor!!!
The little button on the front of valve was tripped prior, and I've never been able to reset it either. I'm at a loss, I guess I'll try to bleed again tomorrow and see what happens. Alot of work to bleed, drop car down, nothing working and have to do it again.
As a reminder.....running new Blazer brakes on the front and stock drums on rear with all new parts....right at 800 miles on everything.

Any help is appreciated, thanks yall!

 

[DSPbuilt]

I like to put a hose from the bleeder into water bottle with fresh fluid inside so that it cant suck any air back up. I've bled all my cars alone and seem to have had good luck like that.

 

[Injectedcutty]

I like to put a hose from the bleeder into water bottle with fresh fluid inside so that it cant suck any air back up. I've bled all my cars alone and seem to have had good luck like that.

That's what I currently use when bleeding since I usually do it myself. However I have a real small bottle. I might make a bigger bottle today and try again that way I can get some volume through the system.

 

[5spdCab]

I also use the one man bottle system. It works well for me. I never knew of reset buttons on the proportion valve, so if you have that, give it a try. Don't forget to check the level in the master frequently. Also, double check that the zirks are fully tightened.

 

[doood]

Watching this thread...

 

[69hurstolds]

Bleeding sequence for a G-body is right rear, left rear, right front, left front. According to the CSM. Rule of thumb- furthest to closest to the driver.

When you bled the front brakes, did you "lock" the internal slide valve, aka shuttle valve?

Not sure of the combination valve you're using, as the little "buttons" on the front of OEM GM ones for G-bodies are for bleeding the front brakes.

According to the CSM, it talks about how you can press that metering valve button on the front in, or maybe needing to pull it out. Thanks for the clarification, GM. They only mention tool Kent Moore J-23709. It's a bent piece of thick sheet metal with a slot in it to put in place to hold the button in for you. People try to sell these for gobs of money, but you can probably make one for cheap if your pin needs pushing in. The issue is, if you have an OEM valve with disc/drums, the pin needs holding OUT when you bleed the front brakes.

The CSM also says that the pin may need to be pulled OUT, but never mentions how to do that. You don't absolutely HAVE to depress or pull out the button, but it makes it easier, I guess. You do have to make sure the slide valve does not move, however. That's way more important.

A little tool goes on the front to keep the button stem pulled out as you bleed the fronts to hold the metering valve open. Kent Moore tool J-22742. You can do with some needle nose pliers with a thick rubber band holding the jaws clamped to hold the pin out. It only moves a little, one way or another. Press or pull the pin to see which way it needs to go.

It's strange because this metering valve is hardly ever discussed by anyone, even when talking about bleeding brakes on videos or how-to discussions. The reason for the metering valve is to briefly pause fluid rushing to the front discs on a disc/drum setup to prevent prematurely locking up the fronts. When less than 3 lbs of pressure on it, it "leaks" by to allow equalization of the fluids. But that leakage also helps when gravity bleeding.

There are some that do have "reset" buttons on the combination valve, but I'm not sure I've seen any on a stock G-body. Aftermarkets should work the same as OEM, but I'm not sure.

If you don't use the little tool for holding the internal slide valve in place (you unscrew the brake light fitting and hand screw in a little tool with a pin on it to keep the slide valve from moving as you bleed the brakes) when you press the pedal you'll push that slide valve to one side or the other and there's limited ways short of taking it apart to manually push it back in place.

With the brake light tool installed...

Here's a video talking about it, but the guy yammers on for like 1:45 before actually getting to the good stuff.

But looking at the valve, you can see where the front button has NOTHING TO DO with resetting the internal slide valve. It's best to lock it down before it gets moved.

Here's one method of hydraulically helping to recenter the slide valve.

Classic Chevy, Chevrolet, GMC, Ford technical articles

Classic Car, Classic Trucks Tech Articles - Classic Performance Products

www.classicperform.com

Another method I've heard about, but never had to do, is that using a tiny screwdriver or pick tool to remove the brake light plastic switch and reach down in the hole with the pick and manually move the valve back to center. Not sure if that's doable where it is on the car.

Hope y'all can decipher all that gobbledygook I just spewed out.

Good luck, we're all counting on you.

 

[Injectedcutty]

Everything you said is spot on 69hurstolds , I bleed brakes in proper order, make sure MC has fluid to prevent it from running dry. I didn't know about that tool until a couple days ago. Doesn't look like anyone has it locally which doesn't surprise me.
Weird thing is the car stopped fine prior, just has an issue with the hubs and I don't wanna lose a wheel at highway speeds!
In regards to pushing that button in, I've tried numerous ways so far, but space is at a premium under the car where it's located. Also, I've read that the blazer brakes have a dragging issue, could be part of it too since my wheels get abnormally hot and darn near burn you to the touch.
I want to get this rectified as more shows and cruises are scheduled. I plan on tearing the system down this winter for upgrades, but need it to work until then. Thanks for the suggestions so far.

 

[Injectedcutty]

Pic of current status. It's the wife's birthday today so prolly won't work on the car, maybe.

 

[69hurstolds]

That looks like a Kelsey Hayes original cast iron unit, best I can tell. Is it?

If so, the pin must be held OUT to bleed the front brakes properly.

 

[Injectedcutty]

That looks like a Kelsey Hayes original cast iron unit, best I can tell. Is it?

If so, the pin must be held OUT to bleed the front brakes properly.

Yep, sure is. I pulled it from an 80's Caprice that had disc/drum setup. The front brakes bled properly, but this pin is a real PITA!!! I ordered the tool that threads into the switch port just in case.