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ck80

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Feb 18, 2014
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I have a couple questions for you, then some thoughts, and finally some input and possible suggestions - in other words, excuse the length of the post...

1) you mention snow... what part of the country are you in, and what do you have for garage/barn space to work on this?

2) what is your level of knowledge and experience working on cars thus far as far was work youve actually done. Will this be your first major undertaking?

3) you mention, and some seem to have missed/glossed over the fact, you want to get the car up and running again as quick and cheap as possible... is it your only transportation/daily driver?

My initial thoughts:
1) if this is your first time doing major mechanical repairs, and you need the car drivable asap, can I suggest you find another buick 3.8 or 4.1 to swap in for now. Benefits: a) its cheap, you can find a running carb to pan motor someone else is about to remove for their swap usually in the $150 to $350 range regardless of where in the country you are; b) you learn what you need to know and the basic practice of changing an engine, refreshing gaskets, setting timing, connecting up the flywheel/converter etc etc where you already have pictures of where and how it all goes back together from before you start; c) you mentioned snow, meaning you are in the rust belt. Fasteners and threads will have rusted up, things will need to be tweaked, and I can tell you from 15 years wrenching in new England vs 10 years down in Georgia, everything was harder and took way longer with unexpected things breaking up in rust country. This southern stuff is a breeze. A test run on a straight replacement let's you get those headaches out of the way and actually clean up your engine bay ahead of time, making the later swap cleaner and quicker. D) cost: right now you need to take what you can get and pay the best deal you see. It's MUCH cheaper if you gather the parts over a couple months looking and waiting for bargains, such as rock auto closeout sales, ebay, swap meets, forums, etc. E) weather. Again, not sure what you have for space to work in, but, as it gets cold wrenching with numb fingers holdng cold iron... well, I don't miss that part...

2) realistic budget and goals. You say you think you want a 350 chevy, which has its pros and cons, availability being biggest pro next to new parts cost. BUT. A) On the engine... Carbeurated? Fuel injected? If FI, tbi, tpi, older vs newer vortec, or lsx? There's benefits and costs to each. B) transmission, I assume you want overdrive? For cheap costs you may consider a th-2004r. If you did go chevrolet, they are plentiful from Monte Carlos and grand prixs, or some canadian cutlasses. Benefit to those if your car, being an 84, already has the second set of mounting holes on the frame rails under the doors to use the od trans factory crossmember, no need for a pricy aftermarket one unless you want it. That fancy dual exhaust and xmember can wait till later.

There is a ton of other advice relating to topics such as ac (for example, a buick v6, v8, or olds v8 can use your factory ac condenser. If you go chevy, the lines in/out of that condenser are now on the opposite side, meaning replacing condenser...) fuel tanks with baffles if you go fuel injected, the list goes on and on.

Also, final piece of advice many do not remember and consider, it sounds like you are after more power and performance. With a buick v6 from the factory, and a th200c transmission, I bet you have 2.14 or 2.41 rear gears. I'd be shocked if there was something steeper than that. Every engine has a power band where it is happiest for hp and torque. Tire size and transmission effect what rpm your engine runs at for a given speed. Here is a fun toy for you:http://www.grimmjeeper.com/gears.html

Play with it. Try to look at the numbers and dyno for someone running a similar engine/cam/fuel setup as you eventually want, see where it makes its power, and see if where and how you drive let's you tap and enjoy that power. Buick/olds/pontiac/chevy engines all have different rpm ranges where they are happy. You may find based on your driving habits and speeds, plus what you want on the car for tires and trans, one engine leaves you in that usable power section for a lot more of your time meaning it is more responsive, more fun to drive, and, gets better fuel economy.
 

Brougham'84

Not-quite-so-new-guy
Sep 22, 2015
9
0
1
I have a couple questions for you, then some thoughts, and finally some input and possible suggestions - in other words, excuse the length of the post...

1) you mention snow... what part of the country are you in, and what do you have for garage/barn space to work on this?

2) what is your level of knowledge and experience working on cars thus far as far was work youve actually done. Will this be your first major undertaking?

3) you mention, and some seem to have missed/glossed over the fact, you want to get the car up and running again as quick and cheap as possible... is it your only transportation/daily driver?

My initial thoughts:
1) if this is your first time doing major mechanical repairs, and you need the car drivable asap, can I suggest you find another buick 3.8 or 4.1 to swap in for now. Benefits: a) its cheap, you can find a running carb to pan motor someone else is about to remove for their swap usually in the $150 to $350 range regardless of where in the country you are; b) you learn what you need to know and the basic practice of changing an engine, refreshing gaskets, setting timing, connecting up the flywheel/converter etc etc where you already have pictures of where and how it all goes back together from before you start; c) you mentioned snow, meaning you are in the rust belt. Fasteners and threads will have rusted up, things will need to be tweaked, and I can tell you from 15 years wrenching in new England vs 10 years down in Georgia, everything was harder and took way longer with unexpected things breaking up in rust country. This southern stuff is a breeze. A test run on a straight replacement let's you get those headaches out of the way and actually clean up your engine bay ahead of time, making the later swap cleaner and quicker. D) cost: right now you need to take what you can get and pay the best deal you see. It's MUCH cheaper if you gather the parts over a couple months looking and waiting for bargains, such as rock auto closeout sales, ebay, swap meets, forums, etc. E) weather. Again, not sure what you have for space to work in, but, as it gets cold wrenching with numb fingers holdng cold iron... well, I don't miss that part...

2) realistic budget and goals. You say you think you want a 350 chevy, which has its pros and cons, availability being biggest pro next to new parts cost. BUT. A) On the engine... Carbeurated? Fuel injected? If FI, tbi, tpi, older vs newer vortec, or lsx? There's benefits and costs to each. B) transmission, I assume you want overdrive? For cheap costs you may consider a th-2004r. If you did go chevrolet, they are plentiful from Monte Carlos and grand prixs, or some canadian cutlasses. Benefit to those if your car, being an 84, already has the second set of mounting holes on the frame rails under the doors to use the od trans factory crossmember, no need for a pricy aftermarket one unless you want it. That fancy dual exhaust and xmember can wait till later.

There is a ton of other advice relating to topics such as ac (for example, a buick v6, v8, or olds v8 can use your factory ac condenser. If you go chevy, the lines in/out of that condenser are now on the opposite side, meaning replacing condenser...) fuel tanks with baffles if you go fuel injected, the list goes on and on.

Also, final piece of advice many do not remember and consider, it sounds like you are after more power and performance. With a buick v6 from the factory, and a th200c transmission, I bet you have 2.14 or 2.41 rear gears. I'd be shocked if there was something steeper than that. Every engine has a power band where it is happiest for hp and torque. Tire size and transmission effect what rpm your engine runs at for a given speed. Here is a fun toy for you:http://www.grimmjeeper.com/gears.html

Play with it. Try to look at the numbers and dyno for someone running a similar engine/cam/fuel setup as you eventually want, see where it makes its power, and see if where and how you drive let's you tap and enjoy that power. Buick/olds/pontiac/chevy engines all have different rpm ranges where they are happy. You may find based on your driving habits and speeds, plus what you want on the car for tires and trans, one engine leaves you in that usable power section for a lot more of your time meaning it is more responsive, more fun to drive, and, gets better fuel economy.

Hey ck80. I appreciate he tips. And the gear ratio calculator.
In response to your questions, I am up in New England, and while never doing anything as big as an engine swap, I have had my fair share of run ins with rusted on nuts and bolts doing repairs and general maintenance on my cars and my girlfriend's. I do have a garage available to me, as well as a pretty good wealth of knowledge from my step father. He's been restoring everything from model A's to corvettes since his mid teens. As far as general mechanical knowledge goes I should be pretty well covered. He hasnt really screwed around much with g bodies though, so I was trying to pick up all the info I could about what to expect and specific parts (motor mounts and such) that should work with the swap before I start tearing the car about.
As far as me saying I'd like to do it as quickly and cheap as possible, I just miss driving my car! I did use it as a daily driver but I also have a work car for getting back and forth, so I'm not stranded. And on the weekends my girlfriends car is used to get around.
I'd really like to keep things simple and old school so I'd like to keep it carbeurated. I'd like to o with a Chevy for ease of finding parts. My step farther also has parts from old restorations laying around (headers and such) so if I stick to a Chevy engine its likely I could get some performance parts on the cheap.
An over drive would be nice, but I drove the car for years with only a 3 speed transmission and I don't do a whole lot of highway driving so it's not required. But it would make the car more useful in the long run.

Thanks again for the tips!
 

Brougham'84

Not-quite-so-new-guy
Sep 22, 2015
9
0
1
P.S. car-part.com is a network of salvage yards nation wide. Shipping is usually Starting at $150. I got my '73 Olds 350 from MN for that much totaling $400. You may find a yard closer to you for pick up. I got my T-5 transmission that way.
T

I'll take a look on the site. And thanks for your two cents. Thanks!
 

Brougham'84

Not-quite-so-new-guy
Sep 22, 2015
9
0
1
I actually just finished my swap in my 84 cutlass. I put a Chevy 350 and I love it. So much power now and time payed off. Depending on what you get downers on the amount of work. The actual swap wasn't bad and only took about 2-3 days (only working for about 5 hours a day) regardless there's a lot of parts to get. You run into a lot of it as you go. I put new front springs to start. You need new motor mounts and the holes line up differently. The easiest swap would be a Buick engine considering that's what was in it but in reality, a Chevy engine is the way to go. It's easier to find parts and deal with everything. The one thing I was irritated with was the wiring because the engine is from a 93 caprice (luckily I had the whole entire wiring harness) so this just depends what you want to get into. To put it into perspective i paced myself and worked on it for about 2 months. But I tell you it runs like a dream. Any other specific questions let me know

Glad to know things went well! You went with fuel I'll make sure I keep you in mind the first time I run into any issues!
I'm am curious, what did you buy for front springs?
 

565bbchevy

Geezer
Aug 8, 2011
9,640
12,774
113
Michigan
I agree with the Chevy install, but try to find a complete engine with all the pulleys and power steering etc. once you swap the frame mounts it is a pretty straight forward swap.
You can also use an adapter plate so your current transmission will bolt up to the Chevy.
 

Brougham'84

Not-quite-so-new-guy
Sep 22, 2015
9
0
1
Actually the current transmission is a metric 200 which is am
I agree with the Chevy install, but try to find a complete engine with all the pulleys and power steering etc. once you swap the frame mounts it is a pretty straight forward swap.
You can also use an adapter plate so your current transmission will bolt up to the Chevy.

Actually the transmission is a metric 200 and from what I've seen is a complete pos. So I was hoping to just get a donor car but man you can't find anything cheap now. So ive beenlooking for a 350 with a 4 bolt main with transmission or them separate. I have seen a few engines with accessories included. I'd like to get a 12 bolt rear end too but I think I can live with what's on there for the time being.
 

565bbchevy

Geezer
Aug 8, 2011
9,640
12,774
113
Michigan
If your concern is to get it running as soon and as cheap as possible and if the 200 metric works then I would use it for now until you can afford a better 3 speed or better yet an overdrive trans. Here is one style adapter: http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Chevy...1&cadevice=c&gclid=COGt18iqkskCFcKGaQod71QF9Q
I am assuming your engine will be stock to a mild build so I would not be concerned with getting a 12 bolt rear there are plenty of upgrades for your stock rear that can handle that power.
 

Stuart

Apprentice
May 26, 2015
77
4
8
Glad to know things went well! You went with fuel I'll make sure I keep you in mind the first time I run into any issues!
I'm am curious, what did you buy for front springs?
I bought new v8 springs to hold up the v8 from the v6. I'm not sure how it is with the existing springs but now my car does sit higher in the front but it should settle down. And yeah any questions I should have answers
 

Silent viewer

Royal Smart Person
May 9, 2007
1,445
142
63
The purests don’t want to see a SBC in anything but a chevy but they are the easiest and cheapest to do. if it was me and this is a combo that I have done. find a late model vortec engine out of a suburban or similar. These engines are all over the place, they are setup for factory silicone gaskets, 1 piece rear mains, they are factory roller cam blocks, they use modern piston rings, powdered rods and they have vortec heads. The vortec heads are in my opinion the best factory head that you can use. at that point you will need a vortec intake, no big deal if you already need a intake any ways. get a serpentine belt setup off of a late 80s/early 90s Camaro. At this point you have gained everything of a modern engine minus EFI and you can always add that later if you choose to, I am currently working on a holley stealth ram on mine. all of these parts are going to be just about the same price in the end as a older sbc with v belts. Another thing to encourage the sbc vs olds or buick is that olds and buick never offered serpentine setups, well sealing gaskets, most of them have no factory roller cams and they are harder to find in general. I guess my big thing is if you are going to spend the money, you might as well make it as modern as you can with all of the improvements that came in the late 80s and 90s. it’s a cake walk to get the thing bolted into the car, motor mounts on the frame and clam shells are readily available. As far as transmissions, a TH350 is the easiest, I preffer a 200 4R but they do have some headaches and added time to get them working correctly vs a 350. By that I am meaning getting the TV cable adjusted correctly with geometry bracket and getting the lock up wired in. don’t worry about springs or rear end until you have accomplished the engine swap, deal with those later. these are just my thoughts and opinions
 
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