The Belltech spindles that I use are #2100, which have the same geometry as the OEM G-Body (i.e., same track width), except that they provide a 2" drop.
BUILD THREAD “The Juggernaut”
- Thread starter Rktpwrd
- Start date
The Belltech spindles that I use are #2100, which have the same geometry as the OEM G-Body (i.e., same track width), except that they provide a 2" drop.
Kiko, you're quite welcome.
It's disappointing that Wilwood wasn't able to provide more alternatives to rectify your issue, but that's kind've what I figured their response would be anyways.
I'm a bit confused tho, you mentioned the second hub p/n will work and reduce the outward spacing by half an inch which sounds like it will correct your problem, yet you mention it's not worth the money as you'll have to buy new wheels?
Are the tires outward more than half an inch as to require new wheels anyways?
I wonder if your new hub p/n will work with my setup to help reduce my spacing as well... something for me to research I guess.
That decision WAS based on clearance, but not for either of the things you suggested. The Camaro spindle steering stops did initially hit the lower control arm severely restricting turning radius travel, but that was easily rectified by trimming them down. The turning radius without the wheels installed is now determined by the stops inside the steering box, so no issues there.
Here's a couple pics of the turning radius I had before I trimmed the spindle stops.
Pretty poor really.
Now here's after the stops were trimmed:
BIG difference!
Now, I say "without the wheels installed", because therein lies the issue and the answer to your question:
With the engine in place, the Hooker headers I'm using on my big block Olds are a 2 piece design, where the #7 and #8 primary tubes wrap around the framerails and tuck back into the collectors underneath.
Those primary tubes take up some real estate in the wheel wells, and the wheels will contact the tubes at very close to full lock. By running a reasonable (but not too narrow) tire, I buy myself some of that valuable real estate back.
Keep in mind, The 'Naut is going to be a triple threat vehicle, and will hopefully see as much autocross and road course duty as dragstrip and street use. So having as much turning radius as I can get is fairly important.
No worries on the sidetrack... this time. Lol
While I'm always happy to help in any way I can, I'd ordinarily I'd ask that requests for help or anything unrelated directly to the build thread be handled via a PM or start a new thread. (Just so this thread continues to document the build progression and doesn't get muddied up).
However, because you asked questions directly relating to missing info I hadn't provided, I didn't mind filling in the blanks. Chances are, if you were curious about what I used and how, others would be too.
Thanks for taking such an interest in the car, it really is much appreciated!
Donovan
It's disappointing that Wilwood wasn't able to provide more alternatives to rectify your issue, but that's kind've what I figured their response would be anyways.
I'm a bit confused tho, you mentioned the second hub p/n will work and reduce the outward spacing by half an inch which sounds like it will correct your problem, yet you mention it's not worth the money as you'll have to buy new wheels?
Are the tires outward more than half an inch as to require new wheels anyways?
I wonder if your new hub p/n will work with my setup to help reduce my spacing as well... something for me to research I guess.
That decision WAS based on clearance, but not for either of the things you suggested. The Camaro spindle steering stops did initially hit the lower control arm severely restricting turning radius travel, but that was easily rectified by trimming them down. The turning radius without the wheels installed is now determined by the stops inside the steering box, so no issues there.
Here's a couple pics of the turning radius I had before I trimmed the spindle stops.
Pretty poor really.
Now here's after the stops were trimmed:
BIG difference!
Now, I say "without the wheels installed", because therein lies the issue and the answer to your question:
With the engine in place, the Hooker headers I'm using on my big block Olds are a 2 piece design, where the #7 and #8 primary tubes wrap around the framerails and tuck back into the collectors underneath.
Those primary tubes take up some real estate in the wheel wells, and the wheels will contact the tubes at very close to full lock. By running a reasonable (but not too narrow) tire, I buy myself some of that valuable real estate back.
Keep in mind, The 'Naut is going to be a triple threat vehicle, and will hopefully see as much autocross and road course duty as dragstrip and street use. So having as much turning radius as I can get is fairly important.
No worries on the sidetrack... this time. Lol
While I'm always happy to help in any way I can, I'd ordinarily I'd ask that requests for help or anything unrelated directly to the build thread be handled via a PM or start a new thread. (Just so this thread continues to document the build progression and doesn't get muddied up).
However, because you asked questions directly relating to missing info I hadn't provided, I didn't mind filling in the blanks. Chances are, if you were curious about what I used and how, others would be too.
Thanks for taking such an interest in the car, it really is much appreciated!
Donovan
Once again, thanks for such a detailed explanation! To answer your question -- the 245/40/18 wheel and tire combination is about +1" too much outward. By changing the Hub and gaining 1/2" will not completely solve the problem. I will have to add more backspacing and probably run narrower tires to tuck the combination under the fender. The last thing I want is to crush the fender on some speed bump! Also, there is a very slight rub of the tire on the sway bar at full lock -- not my main concern but in time this will rub-off the powdercoating, so might as well address the issue at the same time.
Looks good Donovan!
I took the hood, fender and door moldings off my car too.
In place, everything lined up great... once they were off nothing lined up!
I chose to leave my gaps as-is and I put all the panels back where they were...
The finished product isn't as nice, but the end goal for my car was a little different than what you're aiming for!
Keep up the good work!
I took the hood, fender and door moldings off my car too.
In place, everything lined up great... once they were off nothing lined up!
I chose to leave my gaps as-is and I put all the panels back where they were...
The finished product isn't as nice, but the end goal for my car was a little different than what you're aiming for!
Keep up the good work!
Looks good Donovan!
I took the hood, fender and door moldings off my car too.
In place, everything lined up great... once they were off nothing lined up!
I chose to leave my gaps as-is and I put all the panels back where they were...
The finished product isn't as nice, but the end goal for my car was a little different than what you're aiming for!
Keep up the good work!
Hey, thanks for the compliment Blake, and good to hear from you again sir! It's been quite a while...
Yes, I'm sure that's one of the reasons GM installed the moldings, they hide a multitude of sins when they're in place. Start removing them, and very quickly all is revealed!
I know I'm going waay above and beyond what most would regarding the panel gaps. Like you, most guys are happy with just reinstalling the panels and aligning them the best they can - and there's nothing wrong with that. I'm just trying to take this thing to the next level, and that means paying a lot of attention to the overall fit and finish.
Looking forward to the updates on your wagon, it's got to be awesome finally having the payoff after all the work it's taken to get it into paint.
Cheers
Donovan
Well, guess I had better do an update on here before I get too much further along.
First of all, let me say THIS HOOD IS GOING TO BE THE DEATH OF ME!
Lol
Well ok, it's not quite that bad, but the underside of it is definitely challenging every aspect of my OCD tendencies. There's just a lot of areas that require attention, and it's all über time consuming stuff.
I should backtrack a little bit here so the pics make sense with the timeline.
Shortly before work stopped on the hood a couple years ago, the underside was epoxy primed as we thought we were to the point we were ready for it, and to protect the bare metal from oxidation.
After the hood was epoxied, Scottie took it to his shop and did a bunch of shrinks with a torch and some hammer and dolly work to tighten up the sheetmetal.
Once that was done, I ground off the epoxy on the underside of the hood skin inbetween the round support tubing in preparation for skimming and blocking some putty.
Well, I never quite got to the putty stage before the progress stopped.
Unfortunately, and as expected, after several years of sitting around and being bumped and moved, the underside was a bit worse for wear when I got back to it here a couple weeks ago.
Here's some of the good, the bad, and the downright UGLY that I was faced with once I got it upside down on the stand.
One of the hood corners where I added weld to fix the gaps:
Some cracked and chipping filler on the backside of the cowl section in between the tubing. I had skimmed this area prior to welding in the tube uprights because I knew it would be extremely difficult to get in there and do it afterwards.
This was really ugly. Burnt epoxy and wrinkles from the shrinks, and surface rust from sitting so long. This is the underside of the skin above the hood bracing:
Then there was this: despite getting the skin tightened up as much as we could with the shrinks, there was still an air gap between the tubing and the hood skin.
When Scott started blocking the filler on the topside, I remember him saying he was having a difficult time because the hood skin was flexing and moving around on him. That would explain why.
Some more nastiness awaiting me, the long welds from when I repaired the hood curvature:
Incomplete and unfinished welds where I replaced the front tube structure:
The front of the factory hood structure where I got a little deep cutting the old stuff out:
Continued >>>
First of all, let me say THIS HOOD IS GOING TO BE THE DEATH OF ME!
Lol
Well ok, it's not quite that bad, but the underside of it is definitely challenging every aspect of my OCD tendencies. There's just a lot of areas that require attention, and it's all über time consuming stuff.
I should backtrack a little bit here so the pics make sense with the timeline.
Shortly before work stopped on the hood a couple years ago, the underside was epoxy primed as we thought we were to the point we were ready for it, and to protect the bare metal from oxidation.
After the hood was epoxied, Scottie took it to his shop and did a bunch of shrinks with a torch and some hammer and dolly work to tighten up the sheetmetal.
Once that was done, I ground off the epoxy on the underside of the hood skin inbetween the round support tubing in preparation for skimming and blocking some putty.
Well, I never quite got to the putty stage before the progress stopped.
Unfortunately, and as expected, after several years of sitting around and being bumped and moved, the underside was a bit worse for wear when I got back to it here a couple weeks ago.
Here's some of the good, the bad, and the downright UGLY that I was faced with once I got it upside down on the stand.
One of the hood corners where I added weld to fix the gaps:
Some cracked and chipping filler on the backside of the cowl section in between the tubing. I had skimmed this area prior to welding in the tube uprights because I knew it would be extremely difficult to get in there and do it afterwards.
This was really ugly. Burnt epoxy and wrinkles from the shrinks, and surface rust from sitting so long. This is the underside of the skin above the hood bracing:
Then there was this: despite getting the skin tightened up as much as we could with the shrinks, there was still an air gap between the tubing and the hood skin.
When Scott started blocking the filler on the topside, I remember him saying he was having a difficult time because the hood skin was flexing and moving around on him. That would explain why.
Some more nastiness awaiting me, the long welds from when I repaired the hood curvature:
Incomplete and unfinished welds where I replaced the front tube structure:
The front of the factory hood structure where I got a little deep cutting the old stuff out:
Continued >>>
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And then there's stuff like this. This kind of crap drives me nuts. It's absolutely nothing to do with me, this is right from the factory. This area is one of the access holes below where the hood hinges mount. The edges are stamped and punched out uneven, and the sheetmetal even had the start of a tear in in it!
Here's an overall view of the underside of the hood:
Alright. Anyways, you get the point. Lotsa ugly, lots of areas that need work and attention. Let's get to how I addressed and fixed these areas as I went along, starting with that access hole shown above.
I ground off the epoxy at the tear, placed a tack with the welder, and ground it down.
Then I carefully marked out where the punch should have removed the excess material, and ground the extra off with a burr in my die grinder.
Finished it out with some careful work with files and sandpaper, here's the finished product. As it SHOULD have come from the factory:
Here's the repaired hood corner where I had added weld to fix the panel gaps:
The areas above the factory hood structure that had the surface rust and burnt epoxy. These were painstakingly sanded down with 80 grit paper BY HAND as I couldn't get anything else in there:
Here's how I fixed the air gap between the round tubing and the hood skin. I flipped the hood over and removed more body filler from the areas above the tubing. After some careful measuring, I laid out Sharpie lines above the tubes. After determining the center of each tube side to side, I laid out and drilled small holes in the skin every 2". After pushing the skin down, plug welds were made to the tubing below.
No more gap, looks much better.
Continued >>>
Here's an overall view of the underside of the hood:
Alright. Anyways, you get the point. Lotsa ugly, lots of areas that need work and attention. Let's get to how I addressed and fixed these areas as I went along, starting with that access hole shown above.
I ground off the epoxy at the tear, placed a tack with the welder, and ground it down.
Then I carefully marked out where the punch should have removed the excess material, and ground the extra off with a burr in my die grinder.
Finished it out with some careful work with files and sandpaper, here's the finished product. As it SHOULD have come from the factory:
Here's the repaired hood corner where I had added weld to fix the panel gaps:
The areas above the factory hood structure that had the surface rust and burnt epoxy. These were painstakingly sanded down with 80 grit paper BY HAND as I couldn't get anything else in there:
Here's how I fixed the air gap between the round tubing and the hood skin. I flipped the hood over and removed more body filler from the areas above the tubing. After some careful measuring, I laid out Sharpie lines above the tubes. After determining the center of each tube side to side, I laid out and drilled small holes in the skin every 2". After pushing the skin down, plug welds were made to the tubing below.
No more gap, looks much better.
Continued >>>
I made quite a bit of progress last night.
The last of the burnt epoxy and surface rust was removed from the driver's side, the long welds were ground down, the "oopsie" deep cuts through the factory hood structure were welded up and finished out, the last of the epoxy was sanded and feathered out, the incomplete welds for the replacement round tubing were fixed up, and even the side surfaces got a sanding with 80 grit on the DA to remove tiny pits of surface rust that were starting to appear.
Pics:
Completed and ground welds on the replacement tubing.
Long welds ground down and side surfaces sanded with the DA:
The last of the burnt epoxy and rust removed from the driver's side:
The cracked and chipping areas of filler were ground out in preparation for re-skimming them:
And finally, as the underside looks now:
This is just the tip of the iceberg, there's still a TON of work that needs to be done on the underside. But at least there's progress. I'll continue to document what I do, and update the thread as I make progress worth sharing.
I'm determined to see it through to the end this time, even if it kills me!
Thanks for checking in on the build, and in sharing in my misery with me!
Till next time,
Donovan
The last of the burnt epoxy and surface rust was removed from the driver's side, the long welds were ground down, the "oopsie" deep cuts through the factory hood structure were welded up and finished out, the last of the epoxy was sanded and feathered out, the incomplete welds for the replacement round tubing were fixed up, and even the side surfaces got a sanding with 80 grit on the DA to remove tiny pits of surface rust that were starting to appear.
Pics:
Completed and ground welds on the replacement tubing.
Long welds ground down and side surfaces sanded with the DA:
The last of the burnt epoxy and rust removed from the driver's side:
The cracked and chipping areas of filler were ground out in preparation for re-skimming them:
And finally, as the underside looks now:
This is just the tip of the iceberg, there's still a TON of work that needs to be done on the underside. But at least there's progress. I'll continue to document what I do, and update the thread as I make progress worth sharing.
I'm determined to see it through to the end this time, even if it kills me!
Thanks for checking in on the build, and in sharing in my misery with me!
Till next time,
Donovan
Looking great Donavan. I'm glad to see the progress. I always enjoy an update on your project.
I hate to hear how many hours are in this hood when you are done. Maybe I can weld in my patch panels, child's play compared to this. This is above and beyond, holy crap, great work!
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