BUILD THREAD “The Juggernaut”

Rktpwrd

Builder of Cool Shjt
Supporting Member
Feb 2, 2015
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You're absolutely right, many aftermarket products are certainly of "dubious quality" as you said.
That's why my warning of buyer beware on the grade of stainless that you're purchasing.
As you said also, usually not enough information is provided as to what grade and quality the product is.

Fortunately, all of the stainless that I've bought and used so far on my car has been of a very high grade. The tubing I've bought, formed and polished for example was all in bulk lengths from an oilfield supply company. Those guys can't afford to take chances with inferior materials. The lots and product runs are always clearly marked and documented as there needs to be accountability should something fail.

I like using stainless bolts as well, but here you have to be careful as it's even harder to determine the grade. The 29 cent version at the local home renovation outfit is obviously a lot different than say, a high quality ARP fastener. In both grade and tensile strength. Irregardless, a high quality anti-seize compound should always be used with stainless fasteners, or you're just asking for trouble.

It's like anything else, if you're well informed, and know what you're doing with the product or material (and know it's properties and uses), you'll have a successful end result.

As far as the polishing aspect of it is concerned, I like doing that because it not only looks great, but by doing so you actually decrease the surface area whereby oxidation could take root. A smoother surface will provide less likelihood of oxidation versus a rougher one with scratches for example.

Great questions and observations, thank you!
 
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Texas82GP

Just-a-worm
Apr 3, 2015
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I'm aware that high grade (aka "kitchen grade") stainless resists oxidation very well, but in the auto industry there are lots of manufacturers that sell stainless products of dubious quality. Very often, it's hard to find out the composition because even the sellers don't know the exact content. Buying from reputable car parts manufacturers is not always the answer, because their products do vary in quality depending on lot productions and material sourcing.

I've fabricated some parts on my vehicle from stainless and they have aged well so far, but... I want to keep it that way, hence my original question to you. Your response confirmed my own decision -- I buy my stainless steel from a metal dealer in town with a good reputation and clearly labeled stock composition.

Anyway, thanks for your reply!
Check out a product called Shark Hide. I have a bottle but can't call myself experienced with it. It is supposed to seal the metal from oxidation and last a long time.
 
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Kiko

Master Mechanic
Apr 14, 2009
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Ottawa, Canada
On a similar note -- where do you purchase your stainless nuts and bolts? I was pretty impressed with an outfit called "Totally Stainless" (Gettysburg, PA), however, it's in the US, so shipping and exchange rates are a factor.
 

Rktpwrd

Builder of Cool Shjt
Supporting Member
Feb 2, 2015
4,171
23,921
113
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Check out a product called Shark Hide. I have a bottle but can't call myself experienced with it. It is supposed to seal the metal from oxidation and last a long time.

Jared, I've heard of Shark Hide.
Some years ago my dad and I looked into acquiring some to protect polished aluminum surfaces on a vintage motorcycle my dad was restoring.

Unfortunately, being in Canada we were unable to find a retailer or distributor that could ship it to us. Something about shipping hazardous goods across the border. At the time, we were unable to locate a Canadian distributor for it either, so that's kind've where it stopped.

I've heard good things about it, and would love to give it a try. Especially on polished aluminum surfaces (like wheels) that oxidize quickly. It would definitely cut down on the labour associated with keeping them looking good.

On a similar note -- where do you purchase your stainless nuts and bolts? I was pretty impressed with an outfit called "Totally Stainless" (Gettysburg, PA), however, it's in the US, so shipping and exchange rates are a factor.

Depending on the application of the fastener (grade 5 or less), I have several sources local to me here in town that I usually go to.

For all other fasteners in critical or load bearing/tensile applications, I won't mess around. I'll used non stainless grade 8 or ARP.

As you mentioned, with shipping and exchange rates a factor for us, I try to avoid getting anything not local to me unless I simply cannot get it anywhere else. Then, it's usually Summit Racing as long as they carry what I want.
 

Texas82GP

Just-a-worm
Apr 3, 2015
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Rktpwrd

Builder of Cool Shjt
Supporting Member
Feb 2, 2015
4,171
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Calgary, Alberta, Canada

Kiko

Master Mechanic
Apr 14, 2009
300
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Ottawa, Canada
The fender flare mod is like most things on the car, by necessity. The Wilwood big brake kit on the front of the car widened my track width by a quarter inch per side, making fender clearance to the sides of the tires non existent. Without some sort of additional clearance, I'm just flirting with disaster every time I air the car down. If the tires aren't perfectly straight and I hit the button, I'll end up with crunched fenders!

This goes back a few postings, but I've been reading and re-reading some sections, trying to absorb all the wisdom and amazing work you've done! Have you (by any chance) considered writing a "How To" book? ;)

I have a question regarding your Wilwood big brake setup, since I have not seen any detailed write up on that part of your build. I'd like to tap into your wealth of knowledge and try to resolve an issue that I have. Can you provide part numbers for the spindles, hats, hubs, rotors, calipers that you used?

I have the following setup:
- Belltech spindles (#2100) (for an S10 / Blazer / G-Body aftermarket);
- Global West Upper and Lower Control Arms (#CTA-88A; #CTA-88H);
- QA1 single adjustable coilovers;
- Wilwood brakes (Rotors: 1.25"x12.75" -- no part number; Hub: #270-7309; Rotor Adapter: #300-3099).

The problem that I have is that the wheel mounting flange on the Hub extends too far out, pushing the wheel/tire under the fender lip (see pictures). I have "normal" 18"x8" wheels (4.5" BS) and 245/40 tires. Options such as fender flares are not the answer -- I need to get the spindle/brake combination correct first. Mind you, at the time when I was assembling my vehicle, our G-Bodies were not yet popular and there weren't any vehicle specific kits available.

I think that a different spindle/hub combination is what I need, but I'd like your thoughts on that...
Thanks in advance and keep up the great work (as always)!

Brakes & Suspension 002.jpg Brakes & Suspension 003.jpg Brakes & Suspension 006.jpg GP Wheels.jpg
 

Rktpwrd

Builder of Cool Shjt
Supporting Member
Feb 2, 2015
4,171
23,921
113
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
This goes back a few postings, but I've been reading and re-reading some sections, trying to absorb all the wisdom and amazing work you've done! Have you (by any chance) considered writing a "How To" book? ;)

I have a question regarding your Wilwood big brake setup, since I have not seen any detailed write up on that part of your build. I'd like to tap into your wealth of knowledge and try to resolve an issue that I have. Can you provide part numbers for the spindles, hats, hubs, rotors, calipers that you used?

I have the following setup:
- Belltech spindles (#2100) (for an S10 / Blazer / G-Body aftermarket);
- Global West Upper and Lower Control Arms (#CTA-88A; #CTA-88H);
- QA1 single adjustable coilovers;
- Wilwood brakes (Rotors: 1.25"x12.75" -- no part number; Hub: #270-7309; Rotor Adapter: #300-3099).

The problem that I have is that the wheel mounting flange on the Hub extends too far out, pushing the wheel/tire under the fender lip (see pictures). I have "normal" 18"x8" wheels (4.5" BS) and 245/40 tires. Options such as fender flares are not the answer -- I need to get the spindle/brake combination correct first. Mind you, at the time when I was assembling my vehicle, our G-Bodies were not yet popular and there weren't any vehicle specific kits available.

I think that a different spindle/hub combination is what I need, but I'd like your thoughts on that...
Thanks in advance and keep up the great work (as always)!

View attachment 56950 View attachment 56951 View attachment 56952 View attachment 56953

Sorry for the late reply, but it took me some time to dig out manuals, part numbers, etc to get the info you requested.

I am using Global West Negative Roll front upper control arms, p/n CNR-88A.

http://www.globalwest.net/cnr-88a.html

These are shorter UCA's that are required for use with tall "F" and "B" body spindles. While there is a comprehensive list of donor vehicles provided in the link above, my particular spindles are from a '79 Camaro.

'79 Camaro spindle upgrade.JPG


The lower control arms are RideTech Strong Arm tubular. These LCA's were chosen for the proper mounting locations to mount the ShockWave air spring/shock combinations.

As for the Wilwood front discs, they were purchased as a kit to fit the Camaro spindles. It is a "Superlite 6 Big Brake front hub kit" with 12.88" dia vented, slotted, and cross-drilled rotors. P/n 140-10492DR.

http://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/Br...vrolet&model=Camaro&option=Disc+Brake+Spindle

IMG_2007.JPG


The kit came with everything required for assembly and installation, right down to the brake pads. Only the safety wire and bearing grease was not provided.

Front Wilwoods on bench (3).JPG


A further breakdown of the individual component part numbers you requested is as follows:
Hats: 170-10489
Hubs: 270-10494
Rotors: 160-6835/36-BK (Pair, L&R)
Calipers: 120-8079/80-FSR

It sounds to me like you're in the same situation as I am. When I measured and ordered my wheels, I still had the stock front suspension and brakes in place. The wheels fit perfectly then. However after installing the Wilwood kit, the wheels are spaced outward slightly.

Upon reading the fine print from Wilwood, the wheel mounting face is moved outboard from stock, in my case 0.17" per side. Yours may be more or less depending on your components.

IMG_2008.PNG


I have given the solution to this problem much thought since encountering it, and (to me anyways) the only proper solution is to order new front wheels with more backspacing to compensate for this.

While this is not what anyone wants to hear or is really realistic, I believe it's the only proper way to correct the issue without performing sheetmetal modifications. Luckily for me, I love customizing and modifications from stock. So rather than buy new wheels, I'd rather cut up my fenders and add the flares. My labour is free, new wheels not so much!

My front wheels are Foose Nitrous Thrust II's, 18x8, with Toyo Proxes T1R's rubber, 225/45/ZR18. I apologize, but I don't recall the back spacing.

You may have/want to pursue the different hat/rotor/spindle combination idea with Wilwood, but I don't think there's really a solution in just changing components. I would think that if there was that easy of a solution the Wilwood engineers would have offered that originally or at least as an option after the fact.

Now, your circumstances are slightly different than mine. You're using (for all intents and purposes) a stock style G body spindle. (The fact that it is aftermarket and 2" drop is irrelevant for the issue you're facing). So you're also likely using a slightly different brake kit than me as well.

Unless the engineers at Wilwood can suggest a combination of parts to correct the additional offset problem, I can't really see another way around it.

I would be interested in hearing back from you if you choose to contact Wilwood and see if there's some other solution to this.

Hope this helps you out some!

Front Wilwoods on car (4).JPG


Front Wilwoods on car (5).JPG


Front Wilwoods on car (7).JPG


Pass. side bumper notch (1).JPG


Donovan
 
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EME_Mack

Greasemonkey
Does the beltech drop spindle push out the track witdth on the s10. I know on my truck any way the beltech drop spindles I installed push the hub and wheel out .5" to clear the lower control arm with 15" wheels. Other brands like DJM and McGaughys dont do that since they are ment for larger wheels.
 

Kiko

Master Mechanic
Apr 14, 2009
300
341
63
Ottawa, Canada
Donovan,
Thanks for taking the time to gather all the information on your setup and providing such a detailed response!! Much appreciated! :)

I've done some more research on how to fix the problem, and the only thing that I've come up with is to replace my Hub #270-7309 with #270-11043. The new Hub "face to bearing seat" dimension is about 1/2" smaller. This will also make the wheel mounting face match the OE setting of 0" Hub offset (i.e., no track width change). Probably not worth the cost since I'll have to buy new wheels with different backspacing after all... :(

I contacted Wilwood tech support to discuss the issue and they only confirmed my findings. My Rotor (1.25"x 12.75") is no longer in production, but because it mounts to the same Rotor Adapter (#300-3099) that their G-Body kits use, they see no issue with changing Hubs. It thought that they would be more helpful in providing potential solutions, but I guess that there are too many variables in "custom kits", which makes it harder for the tech support person to visualize all options -- unless they are of the rare "tech-y" breed!

I'm curious why you chose 225/45 size tires? On 18x8 rims, you could have easily fit wider tires. Was that decision based on clearance? If so, is the steering linkage or the sway bar the restricting point?

Sorry to sidetrack your thread, however, I'm grateful for your help. Keep up the great work and feed our diet with your very interesting posts!
 

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