12 sec car.. also streetable

[ALaRock]

How do you figure that car could never be a DD? Its huge cams with loads of overlap, high rpms power bands, and huge stall converters that make cars non daily driveable.

A .530 lift roller cam isnt very big in a 355 let alone a 454 or 468. Hell I doubt youd even know it was there! The only thing left to make that car un-streetworthy is the power band and stall converter and being small cammed that setup depending on gears would more than likely only want like 3000-3200 stall since it would have a power band coming on at 2000rpms and thats more than daily drivable.

That being said the $5000 thing is only the short block. Still need $1400 for heads, $250 for an intake, $350 for a good ignition setup, an $800 built trans, $600 for a good cam, and the 8.5 with c clip eliminators, moser axles, and a detroit locker would have no problem standing up to a 10second car. Guys do it all the time in GNs and Typhoons

Well you have to have a reliable platform/drivetrain to hold up to the more power that is being produced and with that many cubic inches you would blow the transmission to pieces if you got on it. The only race would be which would go first the transmission your going to build for 800 dollars guessing rebuilt or an 8.5 w/ c clip eliminators which is worthless with or without the moser axles. It doesn't matter if you put a small cam in it that isn't going to make the engine completely worthless. I also would like to question where you get your parts becasue i want to shop their because just an msd ignition set up costs 600.00 dollars. Sorry but you are going to blow that rear end up in a 10 second car. Guys in gn and typoons are running turbo v6's. That is like comparing apples and oranges or small blocks and big blocks. I am sure the guys with those gns that are running over 11 sec are running a upgraded rear end. Why not run a ford 9 in and not worry about c clip eliminators and crap like that? Yes the power band on that engine really depends on which cam and intake you run if you run a victor jr intake that defeats the purpose of it being streetable because that intake is not one you would run for a streetable application and with that small of a cam you would really underdemine the potential of that engine. Understandable? 😀

 

[stomis]

I never said anything about putting a tamer cam in it to make less power. I was simply talking about a cam with less lift would give you more of a streetable motor regarding vacuum, stall, and power band.

As far as the rear goes I can see we're never gonna meet eye to eye on this one... typhoons are pushing 9s and 10s in a 4200lb truck with the 10bolt rear. By no means am I saying that the 9in isn't superior just saying its not as necessary as people think and I've personally seen the 10bolt carry 10 second runs locally.

Lets take big blocks off the table here. I never once mentioned big blocks, suggested big blocks, or advocated big blocks. I was purely talking about big cubic inch small blocks. As far as a turbo v6 and a small block being completely different beasts I really don't think that's 100% true. Turbo cars have gotten to the point where there's zero lag inside the power band. So if they're making a typical curve inside they're power band then that's not really that different than a small blocks power band...

And the prices are off the top of my head...

And who said anything about a victor jr?

 

[larryo454]

The Quest for a 12sec car is not that hard to do.But we all want tobe told a combo that is going to work part for part and it is going to only cost x# of dollars no more. 15years ago the web was realy not for us to have like we got today we had to plug and play to run the #s.I can remember 1 summer a friend had changed out 5 cams for a goal that year the quest to get the low 11s this was 16 years ago thats not to say he didn't know what to do.Just he starter with what he thought was a good combo but didn't get his goal to start with.But it was a learning curve for him and me along with other friends that year.

 

[ALaRock]

I was just saying that putting a smaller cam in it would make less power versus going with a big roller cam. This would also affect your power band because most of your power band is made from the cam you pick and the intake you decide to go with either a single plane, dual plane, or bad *ss tunnel ram. You are correct running a smaller cam would help with more vacuum, less of a needed stall, and a different power band. I am just saying a big cube small block wouldn't have the potential it could with a small cam. I brought up the victor jr because you didn't suggest what intake you would be running and it is a single plane intake instead of a dual plane intake which wouldn't be as street friendly as the dual plane. 🙂

Well probably... Myself i have seen 10 bolts blown out and i have a 10 bolt currently that is on it's last limb. I am going to be going with a 468 Big block Pontiac and with the extra torque and power i would spit that 10 bolt in half (metaphorically.) So this is why i would suggest people upgrade to the 9in because you don't have c clips and they are a stronger case. Even if it is overkill why not be on the safe side. Over investing the money into an 8.5 that could possibly not hold up. Well that is pretty interesting that they run the 8.5 in the typhoons and they are running v6's. I have seen where people op for the stronger rear end when running a v8. It's just all in what a persons preference is and i respect your preference... Some people money is no object and i am not one of those people. I like the added security of running a Ford 9.

I was just proving the point that a v6 and v8 are to diferent ball parks simply one has an impressive more potential than the other. Well two cylinders makes a slight defference if you ask me. Well there isn't a difference besides the power adder being a turbo, you wouldn't build a turbo engine the same way you would build a naturally aspirated or nitrous engine. Wuold you? This is just my point of view nothing against you as a person Stomis just two peoples different opinions. 🙂

 

[stomis]

I was just saying that putting a smaller cam in it would make less power versus going with a big roller cam. This would also affect your power band because most of your power band is made from the cam you pick and the intake you decide to go with either a single plane, dual plane, or bad *ss tunnel ram. You are correct running a smaller cam would help with more vacuum, less of a needed stall, and a different power band. I am just saying a big cube small block wouldn't have the potential it could with a small cam. I brought up the victor jr because you didn't suggest what intake you would be running and it is a single plane intake instead of a dual plane intake which wouldn't be as street friendly as the dual plane. 🙂

Well probably... Myself i have seen 10 bolts blown out and i have a 10 bolt currently that is on it's last limb. I am going to be going with a 468 Big block Pontiac and with the extra torque and power i would spit that 10 bolt in half (metaphorically.) So this is why i would suggest people upgrade to the 9in because you don't have c clips and they are a stronger case. Even if it is overkill why not be on the safe side. Over investing the money into an 8.5 that could possibly not hold up. Well that is pretty interesting that they run the 8.5 in the typhoons and they are running v6's. I have seen where people op for the stronger rear end when running a v8. It's just all in what a persons preference is and i respect your preference... Some people money is no object and i am not one of those people. I like the added security of running a Ford 9.

I was just proving the point that a v6 and v8 are to diferent ball parks simply one has an impressive more potential than the other. Well two cylinders makes a slight defference if you ask me. Well there isn't a difference besides the power adder being a turbo, you wouldn't build a turbo engine the same way you would build a naturally aspirated or nitrous engine. Wuold you? This is just my point of view nothing against you as a person Stomis just two peoples different opinions. 🙂

Dude I totally here you. If I was doing a serious big block or if money was no option I'd get a 9in too. My only point on the subject is that theres loads of guys who say "Man I'd like to ditch this 7.5 rear and get 8.5!" then the lucky ones of us who started with 8.5in cars are going "Man I really need a 9in" lol.

Theres always a point where an OD trans is impractical for a drag car. Personally I dont think that the 11 or 10 second mark is that point anymore with the advances in beefin up OD transmission.

I guess in a year or two when I build a serious motor for my 442 we'll see lol. Cause right now I'm between going full aftermarket with the block and doing a 434 or doing a 383. The goal will be around 450hp with 8.5:1 compression with a vortec blowthrough kit on it hoping to top out the potential of the vortec kit at 775hp.

I plan to keep the cam small and make the thing totally street worthy. Hell I'll probably DD it when its nice out. I'm just saying theres more than 1 way to skin a cat.

 

[ALaRock]

Agreeable.

I agree you can build a fairly strong od transmission and have a street and strip combinations with the right parts and i currently have the turbo 350 and having only a three speed over the od cuts down on my mileage which sucks. I'm not building my car to get good mileage though so i guess i'll take the good with the bad.

Well good luck with your future plans. I am always wanting something different, but i figure after i get my cutlass where i want it. Big block Pontiac and clean body with a real nice paint job. I plan on buying another g-body and i would like to either do an ls1 combinations with the procharger or 383 with the procharger. I just think a 83 cutlass or 85 ss monte would be sick running a ls1 and myself with these modern engines you can have a fast dd. The possibilities are endless. I also think you should have a solid drivetrain to back up whatever power you are making. It is also expensive to have a 10 second daily driver. One that my bank account can't currently support. lol 🙁

There is more than one way to skin a cat. 🙂

 

[stomis]

Agreeable.

I agree you can build a fairly strong od transmission and have a street and strip combinations with the right parts and i currently have the turbo 350 and having only a three speed over the od cuts down on my mileage which sucks. I'm not building my car to get good mileage though so i guess i'll take the good with the bad.

Well good luck with your future plans. I am always wanting something different, but i figure after i get my cutlass where i want it. Big block Pontiac and clean body with a real nice paint job. I plan on buying another g-body and i would like to either do an ls1 combinations with the procharger or 383 with the procharger. I just think a 83 cutlass or 85 ss monte would be sick running a ls1 and myself with these modern engines you can have a fast dd. The possibilities are endless. I also think you should have a solid drivetrain to back up whatever power you are making. It is also expensive to have a 10 second daily driver. One that my bank account can't currently support. lol 🙁

There is more than one way to skin a cat. 🙂

Yep the LSX thoughts are always going through my head too... Evil little demons lol

I figured that for the money of the donor motor I could have a short block, or the super charger kit, or a wicked set of heads.

Not to mention a standalone harness is $1000 with the re-tune for the computer... We just did an ls1 into a 32 chevy at work.

 

[RITTER]

I think M.Bailey's thread "no 12's for me" proves that just a powerful small block and a good rear-end won't get you in the 12's. His combination should easily be able to run high 12's

Don't forget about your suspension and tires. Building a SBC that is capable of running a 12 second quarter mile is fairly simple. Getting the entire combination is the hardest part.

 

[kornball426]

It's my personal opinion that you shouldn't stroke certain motors, the 350 is one of them. Now that's totally my opinion, there's probably millions of people that would disagree. Those 383's are proven to make a lot of power but it's a compromise. There's the custom piston long rod style I have doubt about the reliability of these, I'm sure it's fine for a race motor that see's lots of revs but not a lot of hours/miles. And then there's the short rod stock piston style that don't rev that great, but use mostly off the shelf parts. And then with these you also have to take into account rod angularity which puts lots of side loading on your pistons and wear them out faster. Neither sounds all that good to me, I'd just go with a stout stock stroke bottom end in either a stock 350 or 400, either will be able to make enough power to put you into the 12's reliably, with the right bolt on parts, plus cam, compression, and head choice.

Big block Chevies are good to stroke, 496 or 502 is very simple and reliable... And for example Fords are good to stroke, a 351 windsor is cheap, easy, reliable and strokes well(kind of like your neighborhood call girl).

To ad to what one of you was saying... I don't think there's such thing as a lag free turbo setup. I've got a 7.3L powerstroke F250 and even though it would make at least 325 ft/lbs without the turbo (what my 6.9L IDI non turbo F250 had), so you'd think it would spool like instantly... And not be very laggy. It idles at 500 and if you hit the gas it instantly jumps into action and hits about 1200 or so just off engine power no boost, but then it hits this bog zone till about 1500rpm and then the turbo spools, chirps the tires, and takes off like crazy... to make peak torque at just 2000 rpm, peak HP at 2500 rpm, run out of breath at 3200 rpm and shift flat out. Might not sound like much lag, and it probably only takes a half a second, but it feels like it takes an agonizing amount of time. And every turbo car I've ever driven was the same way... You get spoiled on that boost, and even if it only takes a split second to kick in, the lag is really annoying. I've driven all kinds of tuner cars with turbo's and they suck unless they're on the boost. And I've driven one V8 with a turbo, and it still had lag despite being about as fast as any car I've ever been in.

 

[stomis]

It's my personal opinion that you shouldn't stroke certain motors, the 350 is one of them. Now that's totally my opinion, there's probably millions of people that would disagree. Those 383's are proven to make a lot of power but it's a compromise. There's the custom piston long rod style I have doubt about the reliability of these, I'm sure it's fine for a race motor that see's lots of revs but not a lot of hours/miles. And then there's the short rod stock piston style that don't rev that great, but use mostly off the shelf parts. And then with these you also have to take into account rod angularity which puts lots of side loading on your pistons and wear them out faster. Neither sounds all that good to me, I'd just go with a stout stock stroke bottom end in either a stock 350 or 400, either will be able to make enough power to put you into the 12's reliably, with the right bolt on parts, plus cam, compression, and head choice.

Big block Chevies are good to stroke, 496 or 502 is very simple and reliable... And for example Fords are good to stroke, a 351 windsor is cheap, easy, reliable and strokes well(kind of like your neighborhood call girl).

To ad to what one of you was saying... I don't think there's such thing as a lag free turbo setup. I've got a 7.3L powerstroke F250 and even though it would make at least 325 ft/lbs without the turbo (what my 6.9L IDI non turbo F250 had), so you'd think it would spool like instantly... And not be very laggy. It idles at 500 and if you hit the gas it instantly jumps into action and hits about 1200 or so just off engine power no boost, but then it hits this bog zone till about 1500rpm and then the turbo spools, chirps the tires, and takes off like crazy... to make peak torque at just 2000 rpm, peak HP at 2500 rpm, run out of breath at 3200 rpm and shift flat out. Might not sound like much lag, and it probably only takes a half a second, but it feels like it takes an agonizing amount of time. And every turbo car I've ever driven was the same way... You get spoiled on that boost, and even if it only takes a split second to kick in, the lag is really annoying. I've driven all kinds of tuner cars with turbo's and they suck unless they're on the boost. And I've driven one V8 with a turbo, and it still had lag despite being about as fast as any car I've ever been in.

Theres nothing wrong with a 383 for a daily driver. Loads of people daily drive them, put them and boats and whoop them, hell mercruiser offers a warrantied 383 crate for boats. The reasons your coming up with like additional piston side load arent magnified by the stroker in any amount that would ever make a difference.

As far as turbo cars go. A properly setup AUTOMATIC turbo car can absolutely be a lag free car. The reason the car needs to be automatic is because the motor needs to be loaded up to make boost instantly, which you can accomplish footbraking or trans braking it. No dice doing that in a stick.