307 upgrades

[jetsetw31]

Hey Dripz, If your looking for an affordable Olds motor, have you tried Car-Part.com?
Check out this post "ISO Olds 350/403". I helped him with this site because he had a hard time finding an Olds motor too.

 

[beeterolds]

But from a legal standpoint the only larger engines one can install are either newer SBCs, LTs, or LS since the larger BOP motors are too old to be legal swaps for most G bodies, especially 80s. It is a shame for the BOP guys.

What are you the smog police?
Before I did my LS engine swap I ran a 1977 403.. It had 350 heads a rumpity Comp cam and manifolds with dual converters... That's it.. Passed Hydrocarbons, CO3 and NOx with flying colors.. and I still have the documents to prove it.. Unless you live in California the land of the smog Nazi's theres many places in the US where you are safe to such nonsense.. When I took my car for the Emissions inspection it rattled the windows on the dyno.. After I got my test back I even opened the hood to show the manager that it wasn't stock.. Dude couldn't believe that my car had cleaner lower numbers than most vehicles they have tested and all I had was 2 big *ss Catco converters.. That's it.. I don't know where you live man but it sounds like if you want to have project cars your better off moving to a friendlier state.

 

[86-blk442]

Sometimes I think even an old school setup (like mentioned above) can still be more efficient than new engines. Fuel injection and computers arent everything. My 442 with 350 got over 15 mpg around town with 3.73s and no OD now with the OD should be higher. The old school trucks myself and a couple fiends have with gen 1 chevys 4:10 gears and no overdrive knock down the same mpg as brand new trucks. How good is technology?

 

[olds307 and 403]

The Olds V8 was light weight for it's time, lighter than a sbc, fuel efficient and had a great torque curve and very durable. You might lose 1 mpg going to a 403, only because it is so much more fun to hit the go pedal. I got0 Imperial mpg with 2.56 in -40 temps with a 403. Got 18 with a 3.42 gear swap, driving like a maniac and not locking up the converter. My Olds 350 is even better mpg wise and much better power wise than the 307 that came with the car.

 

[Clone TIE Pilot]

But from a legal standpoint the only larger engines one can install are either newer SBCs, LTs, or LS since the larger BOP motors are too old to be legal swaps for most G bodies, especially 80s. It is a shame for the BOP guys.

What are you the smog police?
Before I did my LS engine swap I ran a 1977 403.. It had 350 heads a rumpity Comp cam and manifolds with dual converters... That's it.. Passed Hydrocarbons, CO3 and NOx with flying colors.. and I still have the documents to prove it.. Unless you live in California the land of the smog Nazi's theres many places in the US where you are safe to such nonsense.. When I took my car for the Emissions inspection it rattled the windows on the dyno.. After I got my test back I even opened the hood to show the manager that it wasn't stock.. Dude couldn't believe that my car had cleaner lower numbers than most vehicles they have tested and all I had was 2 big *ss Catco converters.. That's it.. I don't know where you live man but it sounds like if you want to have project cars your better off moving to a friendlier state.

What are you, a low emissions hateboy? Not everyone lives in states with lax inpections that can get away with half *ss jobs and you should put a warning about it in your other thread about "cheap" LS swaps.
I live in NJ where there is no age cutoff for inspections. It is federal law that you can't swap older engines into a newer car, so you may want to move to a friendlier country. G bodies are low emission cars and are never exempt from federal laws regardless of what your state says. It was illegal of that shop owner not to fail you knowing you had an illegal swap and can have his shop license pulled, regardless how clean the engine burns since it probably lacked vapor control systems. Exhaust emissions is only part of the pollution, gas tank and crankcase vapors are the other parts most people don't even think about but still cause smog. When you do swap a newer engine into a older car, the car now must meet the newer and higher standards. Swap an LS in, you need to swap in the stock EFI and OBD2 emission controls and turn the car into a modern OBD2 low emissions car. A complete swap, not a half *ss job. Cheap usually means half *ss or even quarter *ss.

 

[Dripz1985]

Will a edelbrock 1406 carb fit on the olds 307 just found one one for 140 brand new let me know ASAP

 

[Clone TIE Pilot]

Sometimes I think even an old school setup (like mentioned above) can still be more efficient than new engines. Fuel injection and computers arent everything. My 442 with 350 got over 15 mpg around town with 3.73s and no OD now with the OD should be higher. The old school trucks myself and a couple fiends have with gen 1 chevys 4:10 gears and no overdrive knock down the same mpg as brand new trucks. How good is technology?

Biggest factor are the design of the heads. Olds have 8 degree valves vs 23 degree SBC valves vs 15 degree LS valves. Through valve angle isn't everything, there is also the importance of combustion chamber design and the runners. Not sure how the best Olds head would stack up against a SBC's Vortec head in terms of flow management and combustion management. Also modern cars and trucks are overweight pigs compared to older cars and trucks. That really affects MPGs.

 

[1bad79]

What are you, a low emissions hateboy? Not everyone lives in states with lax inpections that can get away with half *ss jobs and you should put a warning about it in your other thread about "cheap" LS swaps.
I live in NJ where there is no age cutoff for inspections. It is federal law that you can't swap older engines into a newer car, so you may want to move to a friendlier country. G bodies are low emission cars and are never exempt from federal laws regardless of what your state says. It was illegal of that shop owner not to fail you knowing you had an illegal swap and can have his shop license pulled, regardless how clean the engine burns since it probably lacked vapor control systems. Exhaust emissions is only part of the pollution, gas tank and crankcase vapors are the other parts most people don't even think about but still cause smog. When you do swap a newer engine into a older car, the car now must meet the newer and higher standards. Swap an LS in, you need to swap in the stock EFI and OBD2 emission controls and turn the car into a modern OBD2 low emissions car. A complete swap, not a half *ss job. Cheap usually means half *ss or even quarter *ss.[/quote]
Bullsh1t it might be a state law but not federal if that was true there's millions of illegal cars on the road

 

[Dripz1985]

Will the edelbrock 1406 carb fit????? Forget the emissions crap I live In texas

 

[Clone TIE Pilot]

[/quote]
Bullsh1t it might be a state law but not federal if that was true there's millions of illegal cars on the road[/quote]

It is not BS, it is reality. There are many cars breaking the law right now.

Here is the PDF explaining the engine swapping laws. http://www2.epa.gov/sites/production/files/documents/engswitch_0.pdf

The intention is to make sure certified emission packages are kept in tact. The car has a emission standard that it must meet. If you can't prove it, you can't do it. Aftermarket kits- catalyts, turbos, superchargers, etc- have to meet the same rules. No foreign engines that are not somehow certified for use in the US and you are not allowed to bolt an engine from a different make into a car.. as then there is no way to have all the cerftified emissions controls in place. That standard also includes OBD (depending on the year) and evaporative emissions. If you swap an engine, the resulting vehicle has to meet the emissions covering the newer of the two, i.e. if you stick a 1995 engine into a 1980 car, the resulting vehicle now has to pass 1995 emissions standards. If you swap a 1980 engine into a 1980 car, it too must pass 1980 standards. Engine switches (swaps) are acceptable as long as the resulting vehicle matches exactly to any "certified" configuration of the same or newer make and model year as the chassis.These laws apply to anything newer than 1965. Federal law applies everywhere, even FL. Now, they may not test for emissions stuff down there, but the same laws do apply regardless.

Besides federal laws, states can put more restrictions on top of the fed laws, but they are powerless to repeal fed laws. Just because you are exempt from inspections doesn't mean you are exempt from obeying the law. States can only stop or cut down on inspections if the Feds feel the local air quality meets the federal standard and allow the state to do so. If the air quality doesn't meet standards or drops below that standard, then the Feds will order the state to resume inspections again until the air cleans up. Most states are OK with engine swaps, as long as you replace the engine with one of the vehicle's model year or newer AND leave all emission control devices intact. GM's E-Rod crate engine are certified packages, which makes them legal everywhere in the US for older cars. Or pull a complete certified package out of a same year or newer donor.

As for the rules- what do people honestly expect? OEM's are supposed to make cars that meet specific emission rules, and should not be tampered with, unless you can prove that they are compliant. And if you can prove it, then it's quite legal. So, I don't exactly understand people's beef with the rules.