307 upgrades

[Oldstech]

Or own a diesel car and dont worry about any of this. Never...

 

[olds307 and 403]

Yes but get a tuning kit, will probably be pig rich, more than likely. You also NEED to run a vacuum advance distributor. You need to ground one wire for cruise, A/C and a kit or toggle switch for your lock up torque converter.

 

[beeterolds]

But from a legal standpoint the only larger engines one can install are either newer SBCs, LTs, or LS since the larger BOP motors are too old to be legal swaps for most G bodies, especially 80s. It is a shame for the BOP guys.

What are you the smog police?
Before I did my LS engine swap I ran a 1977 403.. It had 350 heads a rumpity Comp cam and manifolds with dual converters... That's it.. Passed Hydrocarbons, CO3 and NOx with flying colors.. and I still have the documents to prove it.. Unless you live in California the land of the smog Nazi's theres many places in the US where you are safe to such nonsense.. When I took my car for the Emissions inspection it rattled the windows on the dyno.. After I got my test back I even opened the hood to show the manager that it wasn't stock.. Dude couldn't believe that my car had cleaner lower numbers than most vehicles they have tested and all I had was 2 big *ss Catco converters.. That's it.. I don't know where you live man but it sounds like if you want to have project cars your better off moving to a friendlier state.

What are you, a low emissions hateboy? Not everyone lives in states with lax inpections that can get away with half *ss jobs and you should put a warning about it in your other thread about "cheap" LS swaps.
I live in NJ where there is no age cutoff for inspections. It is federal law that you can't swap older engines into a newer car, so you may want to move to a friendlier country. G bodies are low emission cars and are never exempt from federal laws regardless of what your state says. It was illegal of that shop owner not to fail you knowing you had an illegal swap and can have his shop license pulled, regardless how clean the engine burns since it probably lacked vapor control systems. Exhaust emissions is only part of the pollution, gas tank and crankcase vapors are the other parts most people don't even think about but still cause smog. When you do swap a newer engine into a older car, the car now must meet the newer and higher standards. Swap an LS in, you need to swap in the stock EFI and OBD2 emission controls and turn the car into a modern OBD2 low emissions car. A complete swap, not a half *ss job. Cheap usually means half *ss or even quarter *ss.[/quote

Wheres your Ultra low emissions Honda or better yet your bicycle?
I have an idea, instead of sitting around here and commenting on how EVERYONES engine swap is illegal like I have seen you post in almost every freaking topic. Why not post positive insight to help those in question? You can judge and nit pick but you don't know that I am a resourceful shopper who can create and build something with little funding.

Nothing wrong with having a low emissions auto.. I bet anyone this is the cleanest burning swap I have done yet... and YES my vapor system is hooked up because I cant stand the fumes as my garage is connected to my house. So before you go spouting off on some Al Gore loving tangent maybe you should think about how your comments really affect people. Do you really thing people are here to read about how some engine swap is going to affect the air? Most gear heads aren't idiots and they are aware of their smog laws.

For the record.. I bet my CHEAP HALF assed car would run circles around your car AND produce less emissions... All Ohio cares about is what comes out of the tail pipe... If you have such a hard on for smog laws and low emissions go ride a horse.. O wait.. Im sorry, horses fart and farting produces methane.. and Methane is a green house gas... Why not criticize farmers next?

 

[Clone TIE Pilot]

I was just informing people that they may not be able to follow your "cheap" way due to their local restrictions, and you go fly off the handle. I wasn't judging you, just warning people of legal pitfalls so they don't step into them which is being helpful since not everyone is aware of them. Sounds like you are really butthurt that not everyone approves of your ultra amazing swap. The rest of your statements are just bizarre strawman arguments and ad hominems and other cheap tactics. I am not a tree hugger, heck I mow with a 1946 farm tractor, I just don't want to fork out $2,500 fine to Uncle Sam and I like to be able to drive my car out on the road. If there was a kit to convert my tractor to PCV I would to keep the insides cleaner. You being "a resourceful shopper who can create and build something with little funding" or able to "run circles" around mine is just a red herring argument. The argument is about legality, and instead of addressing it you try to keep changing the subject. For example you are clearly venting crackcase flumes out of that little cheap cone filter which is alot of pollution and helps to form gunk in your crankcase for no good reason. That is good workmen ship there. The fact of the matter is your car is illegal because you were cheap and lazy with your swap and the only person to blame is yourself. Calling me names doesn't change that fact, and throwing hissy fits and name calling is just showing your true colors to everyone else here. Burning clean is only part of being legal, you also need the hardware installed, I didn't write the rules nore do I like them. But they are what they are thanks to Bush senior who pretty much outlawed dual exhaust retrofitting, the topic is legality, not burning the cleanest which is related. BTW, I did my legal swap for $450, $250 for the complete powertrain, $150 to install, how is that for being "a resourceful shopper who can create and build something with little funding" 🙂 .

Sad thing is you could have done a full legal LS swap for a little more than the cost of that overpriced carb conversion kit which most LS guys laugh at for being *ss backwards. Why crippe that engine with a even more outdated than stock fuel system that also renders the whole car illegal. Really pissed it down your leg. I should add to my sig, never try to help an idiot, they just kick you in the teeth when you do. But I should follow what's already there from now on with you.

 

[jetsetw31]

Will the edelbrock 1406 carb fit????? Forget the emissions crap I live In texas

No, you'll need an adapter unless your running a aftermarket Intake that has both bolt patterns. Plus the Qjet is a better carb than the Edel 1406. IMO. The Edel 1902 is a Qjet.

 

[beeterolds]

I was just informing people that they may not be able to follow your "cheap" way due to their local restrictions, and you go fly off the handle. I wasn't judging you, just warning people of legal pitfalls so they don't step into them which is being helpful since not everyone is aware of them. Sounds like you are really butthurt that not everyone approves of your ultra amazing swap. The rest of your statements are just bizarre strawman arguments and ad hominems and other cheap tactics. I am not a tree hugger, heck I mow with a 1946 farm tractor, I just don't want to fork out $2,500 fine to Uncle Sam and I like to be able to drive my car out on the road. If there was a kit to convert my tractor to PCV I would to keep the insides cleaner. You being "a resourceful shopper who can create and build something with little funding" or able to "run circles" around mine is just a red herring argument. The argument is about legality, and instead of addressing it you try to keep changing the subject. For example you are clearly venting crackcase flumes out of that little cheap cone filter which is alot of pollution and helps to form gunk in your crankcase for no good reason. That is good workmen ship there. The fact of the matter is your car is illegal because you were cheap and lazy with your swap and the only person to blame is yourself. Calling me names doesn't change that fact, and throwing hissy fits and name calling is just showing your true colors to everyone else here. Burning clean is only part of being legal, you also need the hardware installed, I didn't write the rules nore do I like them. But they are what they are thanks to Bush senior who pretty much outlawed dual exhaust retrofitting, the topic is legality, not burning the cleanest which is related. BTW, I did my legal swap for $450, $250 for the complete powertrain, $150 to install, how is that for being "a resourceful shopper who can create and build something with little funding" 🙂 .

Sad thing is you could have done a full legal LS swap for a little more than the cost of that overpriced carb conversion kit which most LS guys laugh at for being *ss backwards. Why crippe that engine with a even more outdated than stock fuel system that also renders the whole car illegal. Really pissed it down your leg. I should add to my sig, never try to help an idiot, they just kick you in the teeth when you do. But I should follow what's already there from now on with you.

My carb conversion cost me less than $500.. I bought the intake for $200 and the controller for $275.. Not overpriced, I didn't buy that waste of money Edelbrock kit with the non adjustable controller. If you don't approve of my swap that's fine youre entitled to such an opinion but Im pleased and that's all that matters.. I purchased my motor for $250 as well plus freight... I strong considered going EFI but I didn't want to deal with all the nonsense of the swap... It would have cost me a grand to do it "correctly". Running a carb isn't taking a step back, its taking the easy way. The way the im most familiar with. NJ must really be hard on people for smog visual inspections and all I couldn't live there and deal with that being tied to this hobby.

 

[Oldstech]

Yes but get a tuning kit, will probably be pig rich, more than likely. You also NEED to run a vacuum advance distributor. You need to ground one wire for cruise, A/C and a kit or toggle switch for your lock up torque converter.

You got me on the Torque Converter Lockup.... But the rest, I had the carb and the 455 came with the dizzy....No Cruise or A/c for me.

 

[1bad79]

Bullsh1t it might be a state law but not federal if that was true there's millions of illegal cars on the road[/quote]

It is not BS, it is reality. There are many cars breaking the law right now.

Here is the PDF explaining the engine swapping laws. http://www2.epa.gov/sites/production/files/documents/engswitch_0.pdf

The intention is to make sure certified emission packages are kept in tact. The car has a emission standard that it must meet. If you can't prove it, you can't do it. Aftermarket kits- catalyts, turbos, superchargers, etc- have to meet the same rules. No foreign engines that are not somehow certified for use in the US and you are not allowed to bolt an engine from a different make into a car.. as then there is no way to have all the cerftified emissions controls in place. That standard also includes OBD (depending on the year) and evaporative emissions. If you swap an engine, the resulting vehicle has to meet the emissions covering the newer of the two, i.e. if you stick a 1995 engine into a 1980 car, the resulting vehicle now has to pass 1995 emissions standards. If you swap a 1980 engine into a 1980 car, it too must pass 1980 standards. Engine switches (swaps) are acceptable as long as the resulting vehicle matches exactly to any "certified" configuration of the same or newer make and model year as the chassis.These laws apply to anything newer than 1965. Federal law applies everywhere, even FL. Now, they may not test for emissions stuff down there, but the same laws do apply regardless.

Besides federal laws, states can put more restrictions on top of the fed laws, but they are powerless to repeal fed laws. Just because you are exempt from inspections doesn't mean you are exempt from obeying the law. States can only stop or cut down on inspections if the Feds feel the local air quality meets the federal standard and allow the state to do so. If the air quality doesn't meet standards or drops below that standard, then the Feds will order the state to resume inspections again until the air cleans up. Most states are OK with engine swaps, as long as you replace the engine with one of the vehicle's model year or newer AND leave all emission control devices intact. GM's E-Rod crate engine are certified packages, which makes them legal everywhere in the US for older cars. Or pull a complete certified package out of a same year or newer donor.

As for the rules- what do people honestly expect? OEM's are supposed to make cars that meet specific emission rules, and should not be tampered with, unless you can prove that they are compliant. And if you can prove it, then it's quite legal. So, I don't exactly understand people's beef with the rules.[/quote]
The way I read it its legal as long as the emission stuff is there and it passes your states emission testing,glad I live in Michigan we don't have to deal with that stuff

 

[Clone TIE Pilot]

The way I read it its legal as long as the emission stuff is there and it passes your states emission testing,glad I live in Michigan we don't have to deal with that stuff

That is what I said. Same year or newer, same manufacturer, with all the emission hardware in place, and passes the emission standard of either the model year of the car or the engine, which ever is newer. The reason MI doesn't have testing is the Feds allow the state of MI not to test your car, for now. There is nothing to prevent the feds from ordering your state to resume testing again in the future because your car will always be low emission to the feds. This is with being street legal, if the car was race track only, no street, then even the feds won't care. There are two main sources of emissions they worry about with cars, the emissions from the exhaust, and the fuel vapor from the gas tank. Tailpipe test ensures the motor is burning clean, visual inspection ensures the vapor controls are working.

 

[1bad79]

I guess I planned on hooking up the carbon canister on my car anyway,your right no horse power loss there plus no stinky fumes in my man shed when I park it,i honestly don't think mi will get on board with the emissions testing It lasted about 1 minute the last time they tried that