500 Caddy/Monte Clip into El Camino
- Thread starter Mike P
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Re: 500 Caddy into El Camino
Hmnn your findings are slightly different than mine. The Edelbrock generally came in with the same peak torque but at two to three hundred rpms higher. It was generally worth like 20 HP & extends the HP range quite a bit up to 5,000 depending on cam. Your cam probably hits peak HP around 4,200 & will provide best times shifting by 4,400? So Edelbrock IMO would generall free up 20 HP and add another three to four hundred rpms to the optimum range. Block off the heat crossover & it not only saves 22 pounds but disapates heat much better to help keep your carberator and fuel cool. I ran an electric choke so it never had a problem in the winter although it might have taken few extra minutes to fully warm up I dunno.
With a 4.3" stroke 500 cubes and high velocity small chamber heads its very tough to kill bottom end torque.
Mine had enough torque at 1,700 to 1,800 to the pull the 2.29 final drive ratio (OD) with 28" tall tires in rolling hills on the Interstate without lugging the motor. (If I traveled at that speed I probably could have pulled off much better mileage.) I know this because despite a 2,800 stall I had a lock-up converter so I could lock it up and tried to lug it. Timing I am sure played a part here and and having good plugs, wires, cap, rotor, & coil. Maybe if I actually ran it there a lot over an extended period of time I would of had problems.
How tall of a tire do you have on it now? I ran 28" with a 3.42. (2.29 FDR) and 29" with a 3.73. (2.49 FDR) My goal was to cross the stripe at 115 mph at 5,000 in 3rd gear. An honest 500 HP at 3,800 with driver could do that.
Yea I was being kind with the right converter the Elky will have traction issues even on a track with drag radials, posi, & some less than perfect or dialed in suspension work. 8) Taller tires generally have a bigger footprint plus better sidewall flex than a shorter wider tire. A taller tire will hook up better and or recover quicker from traction loss.
Due to traction the better 60 foot provided by the taller tire will probably more than make up for the taller gearing provided by the taller tire. IMO
Hmnn your findings are slightly different than mine. The Edelbrock generally came in with the same peak torque but at two to three hundred rpms higher. It was generally worth like 20 HP & extends the HP range quite a bit up to 5,000 depending on cam. Your cam probably hits peak HP around 4,200 & will provide best times shifting by 4,400? So Edelbrock IMO would generall free up 20 HP and add another three to four hundred rpms to the optimum range. Block off the heat crossover & it not only saves 22 pounds but disapates heat much better to help keep your carberator and fuel cool. I ran an electric choke so it never had a problem in the winter although it might have taken few extra minutes to fully warm up I dunno.
With a 4.3" stroke 500 cubes and high velocity small chamber heads its very tough to kill bottom end torque.
Mine had enough torque at 1,700 to 1,800 to the pull the 2.29 final drive ratio (OD) with 28" tall tires in rolling hills on the Interstate without lugging the motor. (If I traveled at that speed I probably could have pulled off much better mileage.) I know this because despite a 2,800 stall I had a lock-up converter so I could lock it up and tried to lug it. Timing I am sure played a part here and and having good plugs, wires, cap, rotor, & coil. Maybe if I actually ran it there a lot over an extended period of time I would of had problems.
How tall of a tire do you have on it now? I ran 28" with a 3.42. (2.29 FDR) and 29" with a 3.73. (2.49 FDR) My goal was to cross the stripe at 115 mph at 5,000 in 3rd gear. An honest 500 HP at 3,800 with driver could do that.
Yea I was being kind with the right converter the Elky will have traction issues even on a track with drag radials, posi, & some less than perfect or dialed in suspension work. 8) Taller tires generally have a bigger footprint plus better sidewall flex than a shorter wider tire. A taller tire will hook up better and or recover quicker from traction loss.
Due to traction the better 60 foot provided by the taller tire will probably more than make up for the taller gearing provided by the taller tire. IMO
Re: 500 Caddy into El Camino
“.....Hmnn your findings are slightly different than mine....”
Yeah, they seem to be, I’d be interested in seeing the dyno results you were looking at.
The main goal when I built this motor (besides having 500 ft lbs of torque on tap LOL) was to maximize torque in the 2000-2500 RPM range where the engine would be living most of the time, so it was mostly looking at those numbers and let the HP numbers fall wherever they ended up at.
I personally feel that keeping the torque down where it’s at is the main reason I’m getting the mileage that I am. That being said, I also knew going into it that I was leaving a lot of potential on the table that I could tap into at a later time if I wanted to.
For what the intent of this build was it has surpassed my expectations, in this configuration it makes a great daily driver more than capable of comfortably making long cross country trips and getting “decent” mileage in the process. It is fast and has surprised more than 1 or 2 cars out there.
I usually don’t go back into a project once it’s done, just kind of save the lessons learned for the next build. At some point I may make an exception with the El Camino and do some playing with a different cam, intake and gears. It will be interesting to see exactly what the changes will do both from the performance and fuel mileage aspects. That’s down the road though as currently the all the effort, money and time is being spent on the truck I’m building to go nostalgia drag racing with.
“.....Hmnn your findings are slightly different than mine....”
Yeah, they seem to be, I’d be interested in seeing the dyno results you were looking at.
The main goal when I built this motor (besides having 500 ft lbs of torque on tap LOL) was to maximize torque in the 2000-2500 RPM range where the engine would be living most of the time, so it was mostly looking at those numbers and let the HP numbers fall wherever they ended up at.
I personally feel that keeping the torque down where it’s at is the main reason I’m getting the mileage that I am. That being said, I also knew going into it that I was leaving a lot of potential on the table that I could tap into at a later time if I wanted to.
For what the intent of this build was it has surpassed my expectations, in this configuration it makes a great daily driver more than capable of comfortably making long cross country trips and getting “decent” mileage in the process. It is fast and has surprised more than 1 or 2 cars out there.
I usually don’t go back into a project once it’s done, just kind of save the lessons learned for the next build. At some point I may make an exception with the El Camino and do some playing with a different cam, intake and gears. It will be interesting to see exactly what the changes will do both from the performance and fuel mileage aspects. That’s down the road though as currently the all the effort, money and time is being spent on the truck I’m building to go nostalgia drag racing with.
Re: 500 Caddy into El Camino
Some of the dyno sheets are still on the net but shoot at this point its been several years, as you know I don't even have the car anymore. But I often think about buying it back. 🙂 Please don't misunderstand me in that I don't think you should have built yours like mine or something to that affect. I think you did a well thought out and outstanding job. We had somewhat different cars and goals, but both have an interest in gbodys and this motor which puts us in a pretty small group to share information and get ideas from.
I agree with your mileage statement. Peak torque is where peak efficiency is and should provide the best economy or at least the best use of the fuel being burnt. That range would also be ideal if you were dragging a trailer. Such as an open car trailer with a car on it which would make the 500 work a bit but not lug it. I would not be surprised if you could drag a car trailer at 65 and still get as good of mileage as most diesel trucks pulling that same load.
My primary goals were not mileage etc but performance with mileage being secondary. The most important thing to me about the overdrive trans was that it allowed for quartermile gearing yet low rpm interstate travel with mileage being a bonus. The lock-up converter also provides some nice benefits. I didn't care about 87 octane or the additional cost of the transmission in my build goals, or for it to be strong enough to regularly tow with which I am thinking were probably in your build goals. Being an actual daily driver wasn't a goal either just dd capable and as it turned out later did in fact become my dd for several months.
Nostalgia drags huh sounds interesting. Like pure stockers and stock appearing like Dan Jensen Greg Gessler Dave Dudeck and the boys. BTW did you ever see the other 500 into Elcamino build thread on the net? Its been a few years I would have to hunt for it assuming its still on the net in his stand alone photo album. Can't remember his name but I think he was also into the stock appearing drag racing and had a hemi. Hmnn think it was "Hemi Joel" or something and I think he posted on V8Buick.com where they have a section dedicated to those classes.
I have never seen you mention whats in the rest of your fleet. Stock & stock appearing racers are very crafty and always know more than they tell.
I am not that crafty and you are probably a much more accomplished racer hot rodder than I. I just enjoy upgrading & hot rodding cars and helping forward the hobby. Oh and actually driving them. Most car shows n car show ers well you know.
Some of the dyno sheets are still on the net but shoot at this point its been several years, as you know I don't even have the car anymore. But I often think about buying it back. 🙂 Please don't misunderstand me in that I don't think you should have built yours like mine or something to that affect. I think you did a well thought out and outstanding job. We had somewhat different cars and goals, but both have an interest in gbodys and this motor which puts us in a pretty small group to share information and get ideas from.
I agree with your mileage statement. Peak torque is where peak efficiency is and should provide the best economy or at least the best use of the fuel being burnt. That range would also be ideal if you were dragging a trailer. Such as an open car trailer with a car on it which would make the 500 work a bit but not lug it. I would not be surprised if you could drag a car trailer at 65 and still get as good of mileage as most diesel trucks pulling that same load.
My primary goals were not mileage etc but performance with mileage being secondary. The most important thing to me about the overdrive trans was that it allowed for quartermile gearing yet low rpm interstate travel with mileage being a bonus. The lock-up converter also provides some nice benefits. I didn't care about 87 octane or the additional cost of the transmission in my build goals, or for it to be strong enough to regularly tow with which I am thinking were probably in your build goals. Being an actual daily driver wasn't a goal either just dd capable and as it turned out later did in fact become my dd for several months.
Nostalgia drags huh sounds interesting. Like pure stockers and stock appearing like Dan Jensen Greg Gessler Dave Dudeck and the boys. BTW did you ever see the other 500 into Elcamino build thread on the net? Its been a few years I would have to hunt for it assuming its still on the net in his stand alone photo album. Can't remember his name but I think he was also into the stock appearing drag racing and had a hemi. Hmnn think it was "Hemi Joel" or something and I think he posted on V8Buick.com where they have a section dedicated to those classes.
I have never seen you mention whats in the rest of your fleet. Stock & stock appearing racers are very crafty and always know more than they tell.
I am not that crafty and you are probably a much more accomplished racer hot rodder than I. I just enjoy upgrading & hot rodding cars and helping forward the hobby. Oh and actually driving them. Most car shows n car show ers well you know.- Status
