79 Cutlass Wagon G-machine build

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Supercharged- Once I graduated the hot rod program back in 2011 my build threads puttered off a bit because I got busy with work and all. I started autocrossing more once I went to work for Speedtech and switched to their suspension. Unfortunately I didn't really record much, except for the handful of photos I got from other people. Yes I was thinking to do something a little similar to to what you have going on there for brake cooling. I plan to run the front intake where the turn signals are, and for humor's sake I plan to use a NACA duct in the lexan rear windows for the rear brakes, inspired by NASCAR cars. 😜

Superbon- I pulled in 8 degrees of caster with the SPCs. With the Speedtech arms I could only get 5. That was two different alignment guys so that may have had something to do with it, but I think with the adjustable arms there was more to be had. I'm saving my pennies for software that will analze the suspension and help me calculate optimum numbers. I'll post details when I get to that stuff.

ssn696- It took a year to finally get a settlement, amazing how much an insurance company, who is supposedly on the people's side, will try all the tricks to not pay out. By that point my son just wanted it over with so he ended up settling for $5800 for the car, then I think we deducted like $400 to keep it. Honestly that was pretty decent considering we had less than that invested in it, but I thought, at least according to book value, it could've been more. Either way we were both content with the settlement and the opportunity to finally put it behind us. ... He was pretty anxious to build a fast car so he ended up buying a beater '84 S10 and built Coppertop's 350 to about 430 hp and 480 ft lbs, put a T56 6 speed behind it and dropped the suspension on 18" wheels ans 275mm tires. It's definitely a nasty little truck. He started working at a decent local hot rod shop last year so now he has all the resources he needs to put Copper back together. He wants to get the body work and paint done on "Quicksand" this year, so after that he plans to jump into rebuilding Coppertop. He already has a 6.0L LS with plans to supercharge it and use a T56 in that car too. He's thinking that it won't be hardcore like Pumkinator, but rather be a sweet cruiser with a comfy interior and plenty of power and handling capability- the true essence of a Pro Touring car in a 78 Cutlass wagon package 😎.

 

[500/600]

Without reading 36 pages, is the original project complete?

 

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Scoti - Good question. When I first started planning this out it was more $ to drop a 3/4 ton and almost all the wheels I saw within my budget were doofy "off roadie" bling things. I wanted a Pro Touring/ old school flair to the build so nothing in 8 lug appealed to me. Last year a client/ friend stripped a 1/2 ton '91 Suburban to update the body and interior of his lowered and 1/2 ton converted crew cab. He also decided to go with bags and aftermarket arms and all. So I got the rolling 1/2 ton Burby carcass, a frame notch kit, his old stock control arms with Poly bushings installed, short shocks, a set of drop springs and new in the box set of drop spindles all for $400. Doing it this way I can build the 1/2 ton frame while still being able to drive the Burb. I plan to keep the 3/4 rear springs out back tho'. Since I was set up to tow a G-body with another G-body I bought a tow dolly rather than a trailer. Yes it's a bit of a hassle to have to pull out the drive shaft but other than that it's not much tongue weight and is a lighter overall combo, perfect for towing a car with a car. With all this in mind I don't necessarily need the 3/4 ton suspension and the 1/2 ton fit the build design better. Pics are the extra Burb, the wheels and tires I ended up buying and my friend's truck with the drop parts that I now have. Even with taller 22" wheels and tires his truck was decently low for a static drop, but he complained that getting the alignment right was tough. That's why I want to Z the frame a couple inches, so I can keep that in check and maintain decent suspension travel. The way I want to do it will also create more ground clearance under the whole frame.

 

[scoti]

Scoti - Good question. When I first started planning this out it was more $ to drop a 3/4 ton and almost all the wheels I saw within my budget were doofy "off roadie" bling things. I wanted a Pro Touring/ old school flair to the build so nothing in 8 lug appealed to me. Last year a client/ friend stripped a 1/2 ton '91 Suburban to update the body and interior of his lowered and 1/2 ton converted crew cab. He also decided to go with bags and aftermarket arms and all. So I got the rolling 1/2 ton Burby carcass, a frame notch kit, his old stock control arms with Poly bushings installed, short shocks, a set of drop springs and new in the box set of drop spindles all for $400. Doing it this way I can build the 1/2 ton frame while still being able to drive the Burb. I plan to keep the 3/4 rear springs out back tho'. Since I was set up to tow a G-body with another G-body I bought a tow dolly rather than a trailer. Yes it's a bit of a hassle to have to pull out the drive shaft but other than that it's not much tongue weight and is a lighter overall combo, perfect for towing a car with a car. With all this in mind I don't necessarily need the 3/4 ton suspension and the 1/2 ton fit the build design better. Pics are the extra Burb, the wheels and tires I ended up buying and my friend's truck with the drop parts that I now have. Even with taller 22" wheels and tires his truck was decently low for a static drop, but he complained that getting the alignment right was tough. That's why I want to Z the frame a couple inches, so I can keep that in check and maintain decent suspension travel. The way I want to do it will also create more ground clearance under the whole frame.

Make sense if the 1/2 ton swap stuff was cheap & fresh. The 'Z' will definitely help on travel related issues.

I raised/pancaked/notched the front x-member for my dually 1.5". That combined w/the dropped spindles & bags up front will plant the front x-member on the ground @ the same time as the leading edge of the frame rails make contact (29" tall front tire). If you don't cut the frame rails down, no need in going beyond a 2" 'Z' which should help keep the floor mods to a minimum. The way I did mine kept the motor in the stock location so no floor pan clearance related issues.

Just did my '99 OBS CC SWB 3/4 ton & left it 8-lug as well. Shorter tow pig w/narrower hips but still 8-lug. No intent of slinging corners though.

 

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Scoti- sounds cool! Since I have the floor from the 2nd Burb I plan to cut it out and use it to raise the tunnel a bit for the engine/ trans clearance. I've modded my G-body frame with a box and rear notch, but Z-ing is new territory. I'm looking forward to doing it. I was wondering- can I raise the front leaf spring eye bracket too? Looks like I can shift it upwards by simply grinding out the rivets and drilling new holes for bolts. Any insight on that?

500/600- Lol, most folks just look at the pics. Yes and no. Yes I finsihed what was in the build thread and drove it like that for about 2 years. Then I tore out all that suspension and went to a totally new suspension and coilovers which I didn't cover in the build thread. Now I'm changing it again. This car is one of those that will never actually be done, and will likely continue to morph as new and better suspension concepts become available and as my wallet permits. Honestly, much like the Joker says if he lost Batman, "I don't know what I'd do with myself " if my car was finished. 😉

 

[Supercharged111]

Scoti - Good question. When I first started planning this out it was more $ to drop a 3/4 ton and almost all the wheels I saw within my budget were doofy "off roadie" bling things. I wanted a Pro Touring/ old school flair to the build so nothing in 8 lug appealed to me. Last year a client/ friend stripped a 1/2 ton '91 Suburban to update the body and interior of his lowered and 1/2 ton converted crew cab. He also decided to go with bags and aftermarket arms and all. So I got the rolling 1/2 ton Burby carcass, a frame notch kit, his old stock control arms with Poly bushings installed, short shocks, a set of drop springs and new in the box set of drop spindles all for $400. Doing it this way I can build the 1/2 ton frame while still being able to drive the Burb. I plan to keep the 3/4 rear springs out back tho'. Since I was set up to tow a G-body with another G-body I bought a tow dolly rather than a trailer. Yes it's a bit of a hassle to have to pull out the drive shaft but other than that it's not much tongue weight and is a lighter overall combo, perfect for towing a car with a car. With all this in mind I don't necessarily need the 3/4 ton suspension and the 1/2 ton fit the build design better. Pics are the extra Burb, the wheels and tires I ended up buying and my friend's truck with the drop parts that I now have. Even with taller 22" wheels and tires his truck was decently low for a static drop, but he complained that getting the alignment right was tough. That's why I want to Z the frame a couple inches, so I can keep that in check and maintain decent suspension travel. The way I want to do it will also create more ground clearance under the whole frame.

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If 6 lug is the reason for the 1500 swap just get some wheel adapter spacers machined from steel. On the GMT400 trucks the 8 lugs got thicker, stronger frames. If they did the same on the square bodies I would not want to give that up.

 

[scoti]

Scoti- sounds cool! Since I have the floor from the 2nd Burb I plan to cut it out and use it to raise the tunnel a bit for the engine/ trans clearance. I've modded my G-body frame with a box and rear notch, but Z-ing is new territory. I'm looking forward to doing it. I was wondering- can I raise the front leaf spring eye bracket too? Looks like I can shift it upwards by simply grinding out the rivets and drilling new holes for bolts. Any insight on that?

I know the front hangers can be raised on trucks. Burbs are possibly built different as far as floor clearamce is regarded but it is a possibility. I know they require their own specific notch vs trucks so floor clearance could be a similar issue where the hanger is located. Definitely something that can be tweaked to work.

 

[scoti]

If 6 lug is the reason for the 1500 swap just get some wheel adapter spacers machined from steel. On the GMT400 trucks the 8 lugs got thicker, stronger frames. If they did the same on the square bodies I would not want to give that up.

Squarebody 3/4 & 1-ton trucks got taller rails between the rear of the front suspension to the front leaf hanger bracket. When I modded an aftermarket transmission x-member, I added 2" to the height where it attached to the frame rails.

 

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If 6 lug is the reason for the 1500 swap just get some wheel adapter spacers machined from steel. On the GMT400 trucks the 8 lugs got thicker, stronger frames. If they did the same on the square bodies I would not want to give that up.

The 70s/80s 1/2 ton 2 wheel drive trucks were 5 lug which is what I was after. 4x4s were 6 lug. Not sure what year but the 5 lug was eventually eliminated leaving only 6 and 8 lug options. My 3/4 ton has a full floater rear axle with it's massive hub poking out, so (I think) you're kinda stuck with 8 lug wheel options only.

Squarebody 3/4 & 1-ton trucks got taller rails between the rear of the front suspension to the front leaf hanger bracket. When I modded an aftermarket transmission x-member, I added 2" to the height where it attached to the frame rails.

Thanks for the insight, good info on both posts. I wonder if I raise the bracket 1" that will translate to 1" drop? Or is it relative to the spring and such to not yield an actual 1:1 change. I'm building the 1/2 ton frame outside of the truck so it's like having a baby without a sonogram, I won't know what I'll have until I swap the body on. Hopefully I won't do all the mods and end up with only 2- 3" of clearance under the frame rails, lol. This spare Burby was a stalled project, so it already had the frame notch installed but nothing else suspesnion wise was touched yet. Again with the extra Burb I plan to cut out the rear floor and raise the floor in mine under the 3rd row rear seat 2" higher for axle clearance. I'm 5'10" with a short torso, but my oldest son got my wife's dad's genes and is 6'1" and has a long torso. I'm going to have him sit in the seat and make sure I have enough clearance above his head, if so it's a go, lol. Basically I want to drop the truck as low as I can without going to bags, and still maintain a reasonably comfortable and driveable truck. We make the 4 hour trip each way to see grand parents a few times a year and I just imagine how cool it would be to cruise nice and low for that trip. It's about a 6 hour drive to SoCal and again I imagine how cool it'll be to have a slammed Burb towing a lowered autocross wagon. ... Do you have links to both your trucks' photos? I'd love to see them.

 

[scoti]

The 70s/80s 1/2 ton 2 wheel drive trucks were 5 lug which is what I was after. 4x4s were 6 lug. Not sure what year but the 5 lug was eventually eliminated leaving only 6 and 8 lug options. My 3/4 ton has a full floater rear axle with it's massive hub poking out, so (I think) you're kinda stuck with 8 lug wheel options only.


Thanks for the insight, good info on both posts. I wonder if I raise the bracket 1" that will translate to 1" drop? Or is it relative to the spring and such to not yield an actual 1:1 change. I'm building the 1/2 ton frame outside of the truck so it's like having a baby without a sonogram, I won't know what I'll have until I swap the body on. Hopefully I won't do all the mods and end up with only 2- 3" of clearance under the frame rails, lol. This spare Burby was a stalled project, so it already had the frame notch installed but nothing else suspesnion wise was touched yet. Again with the extra Burb I plan to cut out the rear floor and raise the floor in mine under the 3rd row rear seat 2" higher for axle clearance. I'm 5'10" with a short torso, but my oldest son got my wife's dad's genes and is 6'1" and has a long torso. I'm going to have him sit in the seat and make sure I have enough clearance above his head, if so it's a go, lol. Basically I want to drop the truck as low as I can without going to bags, and still maintain a reasonably comfortable and driveable truck. We make the 4 hour trip each way to see grand parents a few times a year and I just imagine how cool it would be to cruise nice and low for that trip. It's about a 6 hour drive to SoCal and again I imagine how cool it'll be to have a slammed Burb towing a lowered autocross wagon. ... Do you have links to both your trucks' photos? I'd love to see them.

The 6-lug bolt pattern change on 1/2 ton 2wd trucks was '99 (w/the GMT800 platform introduction). The 3/4 ton rear housings were available in both Semi-Float & Full-Float 8-lug options @ least through 2000 or so.

As far as the height change on the hanger, I don't believe it's a 1:1 ratio & I recall a guy that did move his up mentioning 3" up yielded a 1.5" height difference.

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