8.5 in rearend

[64nailhead]

A couple of things to keep in mind : there is more than one way to skin this cat, and the amount of carrier preload and rotational torque are not precise number. Rear end setup is quite forgiving as long as your 'close'.

I have a hone on order to make the old inner into a setup bearing; should be arriving today. Thanks again for the input!!!

To be clear: After I have pinion depth and mesh pattern and backlash satisfactory with the setup bearing, I will perform final assembly. Prior to final assembly I will make sure the new bearings are very lubed with gear oil.... and you are saying I should tighten the crush sleeve until I see 25-40 in-lbs of rotational torque with the pinion alone, or with the carrier installed? I ask, because that is outside of the recommended torque per my pair of references (a trade school video and a softcover book on rebuilding 10 and 12 bolts).

Also, I intend to use the crush sleeve, but have the solid spacer with shims as a backup. I haven't bought more crush sleeves. I'm not actually sure how the solid spacer does the same job as the crush sleeve. I have to research that. If you know the mechanics of how the solid spacer takes up the same preload as the crush sleeve, and you want to share your knowledge, please do so.

Two things you've mentioned that you need to address. Using the old bearing as the setup bearing will work if, repeat if, the bearing doesn't have much of any wear. From the looks of the carrier bearings that you attached pics of, I'll guess that you should use a new bearing. But I could be wrong. 2nd, and most importantly, when you're assembling for measuring setup, rotational torque, backlash, etc, be sure to have the bearings lubed. DO NOT assemble with the bearings dry and start rotating the pinion or carrier, especially with even a small amount of preload. Yes, this will be messy - welcome to gear work.

Also, when you go to crush the crush sleeve, be prepared for the amount of force it will take to actually crush it. It will be shockingly difficult without a good method for retaining the yoke in position.


Almost forgot, you mentioned possibly using a solid pinion spacer. They do work well, but are difficult IMO to get setup correctly. And they are unneeded until you start making a lot of HP. I ran a crush sleeve repeatedly for years and never experienced a problem until I consistently made over 900whp. But if you want to install it, then have at it - it won't hurt anything as long as you get it shimmed correctly.

 

[doood]

A couple of things to keep in mind : there is more than one way to skin this cat, and the amount of carrier preload and rotational torque are not precise number. Rear end setup is quite forgiving as long as your 'close'.

Not afraid of rework but I am afraid of buying another new bearing, so I'm gonna assemble with the old inner bearing. (honed out) on the new race without the pinion shim and measure checking distance with $20 RAT-10004 pinion setting tool and hopefully measure that I need a 38 thou shim. Honestly, no matter what I measure I'm going to put it back together with a 38 thou pinion shim, and then get the backlash within 10 thou and put some mustard on the ring gear to see where I'm at.

By the way, half an hour with a 1-2.5" hone with max contact pressure was not enough to get rid of the interference fit. I'm going to find a way to get more aggressive tomorrow, maybe with a 2" barrel sanding cylinder, but split so I can fit it in the bearing and spin it with the 3 stones of the hone.

 

[doood]

A couple of things to keep in mind : there is more than one way to skin this cat, and the amount of carrier preload and rotational torque are not precise number. Rear end setup is quite forgiving as long as your 'close'.




Two things you've mentioned that you need to address. Using the old bearing as the setup bearing will work if, repeat if, the bearing doesn't have much of any wear. From the looks of the carrier bearings that you attached pics of, I'll guess that you should use a new bearing. But I could be wrong. 2nd, and most importantly, when you're assembling for measuring setup, rotational torque, backlash, etc, be sure to have the bearings lubed. DO NOT assemble with the bearings dry and start rotating the pinion or carrier, especially with even a small amount of preload. Yes, this will be messy - welcome to gear work.

Also, when you go to crush the crush sleeve, be prepared for the amount of force it will take to actually crush it. It will be shockingly difficult without a good method for retaining the yoke in position.


Almost forgot, you mentioned possibly using a solid pinion spacer. They do work well, but are difficult IMO to get setup correctly. And they are unneeded until you start making a lot of HP. I ran a crush sleeve repeatedly for years and never experienced a problem until I consistently made over 900whp. But if you want to install it, then have at it - it won't hurt anything as long as you get it shimmed correctly.

I see that new bearing will be less than $20 on Amazon. I'll go ahead and ream out a new bearing for setup. A bit of insurance for the final setup. I'll compare the setup with the high mileage bearing and the new bearing as a science experiment. I'm actually loathing final installation in the monte carlo - because I'm going to force myself to press in new bushings throughout the rear suspension.

Mike

 

[doood]

Using this RAT-10004 tool and the high mileage bearing with the pinion seated under it's weight (no nut) I calculate that I need a 0.042" pinion spacer with either pinion to get the proper depth. This is good news because the original pinon spacer was 0.038" and considering 64nailhead 's intuition about the high mileage set-up bearing I'm thinking it all makes sense!!! I bet it will go together well with a 0.038 - 0.040" pinion spacer. Shoot, at this point, I might put the old 0.248" cast iron spacer back in the driver side and use the OEM 0.038 pinion shim. If I get a good mesh pattern on the first try - I don't know man. Shoot. This tool was a good $20 spent.

 

[doood]

I see now that these rear control arms were never meant to be rebuilt; I understand why everybody goes for the aftermarket parts. I'm going to find a 2 inch iron pipe and split it, or take the casing from one of the bushings I took out of the differential, and cut it in half to use it as an insert to keep the channels from crushing when I attempt to press these bushings out. I might run a 3/8 drill through the rubber in a few places to help punch the bushings out. I got the control arms out of the donor car down the street. I also took the drive shaft. Comparing this drive shaft to the one I got with the 8.5" 10 bolt, I see I have two different types of drive shafts. Both have 26/27 spline trans yoke, but the one out of 1987 Monte LS euronose 305 SBC is light duty compared to the one supposedly from 442.

Did the 442 and turbo Buicks get a bigger diameter drive shaft with different u-joints? With the interchangeable 200Metric, th250, th350, 2004R, I figured all the drive shafts would be the same length. Here I have a slightly longer more robust drive shaft. I wonder if it's even from a G-Body?

Donor car is going to the scrapper very soon so if you want these Monte Carlo Euro headlights, or header panel, or any of the complete exterior/interior trim, and your close to zip 08070 send me a PM. I could definitely arrange to mail the Euro headlights.

 

[Sweet_Johnny]

Drill holes with a bit, heat the metal with a torch until the rubber starts to boil and knock 'em out with a socket, whatever works. You can actually submerge the whole arm in gas for a few days and it will really soften up that rubber. Just be sure to use a container comprised of High Density Polyethylene (HDPE) if you do- it's the same plastic as gas cans.

 

[ELCAM]

On the bushings you can use a 1/4" drill drill right by the shell and after it is thru it will usually walk the rest of the way around the inside of the bushing shell, then the rubber just pushes out. Then take the blade out of a hacksaw and put it inside the shell and reassemble the hack saw and cut 90% through the shell 2 places 180 degrees apart and the shell should come out pretty easy.

On reinstall use a piece of pipe or a nipple or coupling cut in half and fit to the proper length. use a hose clamp to hold the two halves together to keep from crushing the arm.

Only major difference in those driveshafts is the u joint type, Spicer 1310 on the left and a Saginaw 3R on the right. If I recall proper the 3R is a little stronger than the 1310.

 

[doood]

On the bushings you can use a 1/4" drill drill right by the shell and after it is thru it will usually walk the rest of the way around the inside of the bushing shell, then the rubber just pushes out. Then take the blade out of a hacksaw and put it inside the shell and reassemble the hack saw and cut 90% through the shell 2 places 180 degrees apart and the shell should come out pretty easy.

On reinstall use a piece of pipe or a nipple or coupling cut in half and fit to the proper length. use a hose clamp to hold the two halves together to keep from crushing the arm.

Only major difference in those driveshafts is the u joint type, Spicer 1310 on the left and a Saginaw 3R on the right. If I recall proper the 3R is a little stronger than the 1310.

Great bushing removal method! Thanks for that!

Understood, the U-joints are different. I learned a lot today! The drive shaft on the left is a bigger diameter too. I was leaning towards having that one cut down to use with the 8.5 because the diameter of the shaft was bigger, leading me to think it was stronger. My intuition is it would be better in torsion having the bigger diameter.

 

[doood]

Drill holes with a bit, heat the metal with a torch until the rubber starts to boil and knock 'em out with a socket, whatever works. You can actually submerge the whole arm in gas for a few days and it will really soften up that rubber. Just be sure to use a container comprised of High Density Polyethylene (HDPE) if you do- it's the same plastic as gas cans.

Oh no! My friend told me to burn em out too, lol.

 

[Sweet_Johnny]

Oh no! My friend told me to burn em out too, lol.

You might try one method or the other and not all 3 together. Or do, it could be very interesting. Gasoline soaked rubber + fire = a lot of potential. Video clips of Mr. Bill and Fire Marshal Bill come to mind.