Boosted 4 and 6 vs current gen V8's

[olds307 and 403]

With many manufacturers turning to smaller motors in boosted form to out perform many current V8's and keep CAFE and Hippies happy, it seems like a good topic. We know the mileage gains are minimal and sometimes worse. But the EcoBoost are quick and tow. The new Hurricane Inline 6 from Dodge out performed the Hemi V8's in the Wagoneer. Standard vs 5.7 and Hipo vs 6.4. Talking over second to a second and a half quicker in the 1/4 mile. Rated mileage was only slightly better, who knows in the real world. Discuss.

 

[81cutlass]

Best for mileage?
Best for power/towing under warranty?
Best for long term reliability?

There's a reason I searched long and hard for a 5.0 Ford with the dual DI/Port FI system.

1mpg isn't worth the hassle of changing turbos at 160k because they are clogged with oil schmoo.

 

[olds307 and 403]

Best for mileage?
Best for power/towing under warranty?
Best for long term reliability?

There's a reason I searched long and hard for a 5.0 Ford with the dual DI/Port FI system.

1mpg isn't worth the hassle of changing turbos at 160k because they are clogged with oil schmoo.

All of the above if you want. Yeah, the Coyote is impressive and reluable. I really think Ford has a winner with the dual injection. They held out till this year for DOD. My Daughter's Boyfriend 13 EcoBoost went into limp mode and getting Turbo related codes. He is around 200,000 km.

 

[Clone TIE Pilot]

Problem with turbo stuff is greater complexity, more failure points, less room for error. Not to mention modern stuff is overloaded with Bugmen tech.

 

[ck80]

Problem with turbo stuff is greater complexity, more failure points, less room for error. Not to mention modern stuff is overloaded with Bugmen tech.

The other, and biggest, missing problem on your list is the same reason why the 231 v6 and 307 v8 for example were rated/showed such similar real-world MPG...

The smaller engine has to work harder to get the same output. So, a city cowboy with an empty truck putting from stoplight to stoplight on flat ground? Sure, that silverado turbo 2.7 will be great for him, only kicks in the turbo to pass. Head to the mountains, or, haul something? That puny peanut motor will be substantial percentage throttle to the floor just to get going and try to keep any momentum.

Small motors have their place. But to try to force them across the spectrum is just stupid.

Having moved to hurricane country, I can't wait for all the virtual signaling hippies to have 500,000 EVs all need a recharge at the exact same time because they ran dry. Better yet, when power is out and you can't run a car for heat, to charge phones, to get anywhere, that'll be great too. I'll drop in 4L and go around them all.

People just don't think big picture, and that's the problem. Wrecked ev fires? Stacks of unrecyclable batteries? A grid that can't handle cold snaps because places are banning new Wood fired boilers and new natural gas hookups? Death-spiral of needing new plants, new infrastructure, higher maintenance = higher electric costs = loss of alleged cost savings, and more and more energy gets lost in transmission? Heck, what about the paycheck to paycheck folks who, if anything, rely on $2000 used cars. You foresee functional $2000 used EVs? I can find you a-b beaters under $2k all day long. So, do those people shift to public transport? Not reliable, and, no capacity, not to mention doesn't get where you need to be. So more investment, and, more inflation to cover the added costs people will demand via wage inflation.

You could extrapolate and keep going, but, forcing a transition against the market efficiencies is typically a bad idea as we will come to see even more than we already are.

 

[joesregalproject]

Nothing wrong with V8s, no argument there.

A brand new OEM turbo for my 2.7L EcoBoost costs ~$600, less for a used one and can be replaced in about 2 hours. That said I don't worry about failing turbos. I run a catch can to lessen any carbon buildup on the valves but the 2.7s don't really have a lot of issues with coking like the first gen 3.5s did. I towed my Skylark home with it last week and I barely noticed the trailer was there.

Among other faults, electric has been proven to be more expensive than internal combustion. I think it is a fad driven by politicians who aren't engineers.

 

[ck80]

Nothing wrong with V8s, no argument there.

A brand new OEM turbo for my 2.7L EcoBoost costs ~$600, less for a used one and can be replaced in about 2 hours. That said I don't worry about failing turbos. I run a catch can to lessen any carbon buildup on the valves but the 2.7s don't really have a lot of issues with coking like the first gen 3.5s did. I towed my Skylark home with it last week and I barely noticed the trailer was there.

Among other faults, electric has been proven to be more expensive than internal combustion. I think it is a fad driven by politicians who aren't engineers.

Are these the same electric cars that say don't use internal cabin heat because it kills the battery range and drive around wearing extra coats and rely upon the heated steering wheel only?

The same EVs that need to stay plugged in 24-7 to keep the battery heated and adds costs beyond that simple 'quick recharge'?

And into the charger you need to pay to install into your own garage, and upgrade your service to carry the load?

 

[joesregalproject]

Are these the same electric cars that say don't use internal cabin heat because it kills the battery range and drive around wearing extra coats and rely upon the heated steering wheel only?

The same EVs that need to stay plugged in 24-7 to keep the battery heated and adds costs beyond that simple 'quick recharge'?

And into the charger you need to pay to install into your own garage, and upgrade your service to carry the load?

Based on the attached article, I would say so.

Toyota Chief Says ‘Silent Majority’ Has Doubts About Pursuing Only EVs

“Because the right answer is still unclear, we shouldn’t limit ourselves to just one option,” said Akio Toyoda, Toyota Motor Corp. president.

www.wsj.com

 

[ck80]

Based on the attached article, I would say so.

Toyota Chief Says ‘Silent Majority’ Has Doubts About Pursuing Only EVs

“Because the right answer is still unclear, we shouldn’t limit ourselves to just one option,” said Akio Toyoda, Toyota Motor Corp. president.

www.wsj.com

I've seen similar reporting, but, the article raises a good point I hadn't thought about..

With the chip shortage, and few units on lots, if one customer goes to 20 dealerships asking about EV availability, that doesn't mean there's 20 units of demand. Its still only 1 person wanting one.

I think the reported 'interest' in adopting is vastly overstated, and, that execs insight drives the point home.

 

[Hurricane77]

The CAFE standards are probably THE main reason why they're shifting to turbos vs larger displacement NA engines.

Using a 2021 F150 as an example (because that's what came up in google first).

The base 3.3L engine gets 20/24/21 (city/highway/combined). 2.7L EB gets 20/26/22. 5.0L gets 17/24/20 and the 3.5L EB gets 18/24/20. The difference between the 5.0L and the 3.5L EB is probably less than 1 mpg. Since the combined is the same, I'm sure the difference between the 17 and 18 mpg for city driving is a matter of rounding. Does 1-2 mpg make a difference? At ~20 mpg 1 mpg is 5%. So if you spent $20k in fuel (not unrealistic), 5% is $1000

What I was not expecting was what I saw in the curb weights for the various trims and options. Across the board, the 2.7L EB is heavier than the 3.3L engine. The 5.0L is heavier than both of those (no surprise), and the 3.5L is the heaviest of the 4.

Not really a huge difference overall between the 3.5L and the 5.0. But that small difference in mpg, even if it's less than 1 mpg. But it's the CAFE standards (and there penalties that drive it. The penalties for 2022 are $15 for each 0.1 mpg that they miss the target multiplied by the number of vehicles of that model sold. If they miss the standard by 1 mpg. That's a penalty of $150 per vehicle sold. Ford sold something like 650,000 F-series in 2022. So a miss of 1 mpg is a fine of $97.5 million.

So you want to know whey they're all chasing seemingly insignificant improvements in mpg? That's why