Bye bye big city!

[Texas82GP]

Love hearing the progress.

One thing I'll throw out there, which I'm sure you've heard before and already considered, is when dealing with family/friends in a big project is make sure ANY expectations you have for materials and deadli es is written exactly into the contract - including what happens when something doesn't happen as agreed to.

There's so many times I've seen and had to be involved in a dispute where each side assumed something would work different ways. The paying party presumed something, and the performing party expected to use a method they deemed customary to how their company or industry normally operates - especially with delays or substitutions - that was very different than what the people paying expected.

Then there's a fight over what someone tried to do. Taking multiple contracts. Taking liberties delaying their family/friend projects because "they'll understand the pressures I'm under" to finish other paying opportunities. Diverting manpower or materials to other jobs because there's a shortage, but, 'don't worry, I'll take care of you.'

If it's not done in time and you want compensation reduced, put the penalty in writing up front. If the builder delays progress, even due to manpower shortages, and materials costs increase, put it in writing who absorbs that loss due to bigger expense. Put in writing who has to be notified, how, when, of anything that may need to be altered either in design/placement, style, or materials to be used.

It's a friend, but, it's also business. They shouldn't be offended by getting expectations up front. Don't rely on anything someone says they will do, make sure t is all written down.

It's not me saying you guys didn't know or do this already, if nothing else it's good advice for anyone reading along hoping for a similar move.

Thanks for your interest and thanks for continuing to post helpful information. We appreciate it. There will be a contract between us and the builder so everyone should be on the same page but these are all good points to consider.

Your shop quote seems reasonable. My 36x48 polebarn came in about $45k with the hoist and me doing the lighting and electrical. It's insulated and plumbing stubbed for a bathroom. I'm using the building but it isn't "done".

It's good to know we're in the ballpark. Sean and I probably won't do any of the work. There just won't be enough time. We may have to scale down the size of the building to keep it in budget. The plan is for contractors who are already onsite for the house to do work on the shop (spray foam insulation, plumbing, electrical, doors, windows, concrete, hvac (hopefully), gutters, etc. Hopefully there is some economy of scale that goes with that. More research is needed to hone in on it but clearly, spending $39k on the metal building kit alone isn't going to keep us in budget.

 

[86LK]

Thanks for your interest and thanks for continuing to post helpful information. We appreciate it. There will be a contract between us and the builder so everyone should be on the same page but these are all good points to consider.

It's good to know we're in the ballpark. Sean and I probably won't do any of the work. There just won't be enough time. We may have to scale down the size of the building to keep it in budget. The plan is for contractors who are already onsite for the house to do work on the shop (spray foam insulation, plumbing, electrical, doors, windows, concrete, hvac (hopefully), gutters, etc. Hopefully there is some economy of scale that goes with that. More research is needed to hone in on it but clearly, spending $39k on the metal building kit alone isn't going to keep us in budget.

don't forget to take into account property valuations here in Texas. you know how they are, jacking up the max value every year. at least now state law prohibits it from rising more than 3-3.5% (I think that's right) instead of the old 10%
if you can make a smaller property work for you you may come out dollars ahead

 

[ck80]

Thanks for your interest and thanks for continuing to post helpful information. We appreciate it. There will be a contract between us and the builder so everyone should be on the same page but these are all good points to consider.

Just trying to help a bit without being overbearing. Too many bears is bad news, just ask Walter Matthau.

The biggie to watch out for is 'substantial performance.' That's kinda like insurance quality repair jobs, you may get aftermarket instead of OEM, paint may be wrong shade, and you may get bondo... but the car is in one piece and looks intact 30ft away.

It's good to know we're in the ballpark. Sean and I probably won't do any of the work. There just won't be enough time. We may have to scale down the size of the building to keep it in budget. The plan is for contractors who are already onsite for the house to do work on the shop (spray foam insulation, plumbing, electrical, doors, windows, concrete, hvac (hopefully), gutters, etc. Hopefully there is some economy of scale that goes with that. More research is needed to hone in on it but clearly, spending $39k on the metal building kit alone isn't going to keep us in budget.

One thing to consider on the building is that you are, after all, in Texas. If you just invested in perimeter concrete footings, that saves some thousands of dollars on the concrete pad for now. Leave the floor dirt for a year, then add the concrete pad later. Let's you live in for a while deciding what equipment goes where, where support footings for a lift are best, etc.

Get the biggest walls and roof you can afford upfront. Additions have less usable spaceman the original shell, especially with ease of heat/cooling. Besides, dirt floor will assess cheaper on the taxes when new and they site visit upon completion.

 

[86LK]

Just trying to help a bit without being overbearing. Too many bears is bad news, just ask Walter Matthau.

The biggie to watch out for is 'substantial performance.' That's kinda like insurance quality repair jobs, you may get aftermarket instead of OEM, paint may be wrong shade, and you may get bondo... but the car is in one piece and looks intact 30ft away.

One thing to consider on the building is that you are, after all, in Texas. If you just invested in perimeter concrete footings, that saves some thousands of dollars on the concrete pad for now. Leave the floor dirt for a year, then add the concrete pad later. Let's you live in for a while deciding what equipment goes where, where support footings for a lift are best, etc.

Get the biggest walls and roof you can afford upfront. Additions have less usable spaceman the original shell, especially with ease of heat/cooling. Besides, dirt floor will assess cheaper on the taxes when new and they site visit upon completion.

in fact, build just the shell with walls and roof and frame. have it declared complete and inspected as a big shed, then finish out later a little at a time so a building permit is never required. can you tell I've dealt with the idiot County Appraisal District representatives here in Texas?
btw, they like to use satellite photos, make sure to build under the trees or expand underground.

 

[ck80]

in fact, build just the shell with walls and roof and frame. have it declared complete and inspected as a big shed, then finish out later a little at a time so a building permit is never required. can you tell I've dealt with the idiot County Appraisal District representatives here in Texas?
btw, they like to use satellite photos, make sure to build under the trees or expand underground.

The reasoning is slightly more tactical than just that. See, most assessors try to vary time of year for photos. You don't want to get caught.

But the biggest reason is that flooring upgrades, much like siding as long as it's not newly enclosing space, essentially never requires a permit pull almost anywhere, nor does it require reporting to the assessors.

You don't want to be too cute and have an insurance casualty, then have the Carrier be able to deny or write a super low payment because the structure was either illegal or listed as something less than what it was.

 

[86LK]

The reasoning is slightly more tactical than just that. See, most assessors try to vary time of year for photos. You don't want to get caught.

But the biggest reason is that flooring upgrades, much like siding as long as it's not newly enclosing space, essentially never requires a permit pull almost anywhere, nor does it require reporting to the assessors.

You don't want to be too cute and have an insurance casualty, then have the Carrier be able to deny or write a super low payment because the structure was either illegal or listed as something less than what it was.

I live in Texas and have dealt with Appraisal District appraisers as well as dealing with my insurance company when I had a major claim a few years ago. Insurance companies look at the property, any documentation you may have (photos or videos), and not what the appraisal district has on file. appraisal district only knows what the property had at initial construction. a pole barn upgraded on the inside with insulated walls, etc, is not something that typically requires a permit. HVAC requires a permit, window AC unit does not. BUT that is only if you are in the city limits. County doesn't have those rules and don't issue permits, only cities do.

as you pointed out, they do inspect. the thing about Texas is that they usually only appraise the property in person once (when built) and then wait for the building permits to come in so they can add to the valuation. they're that lazy. I had one of them admit to me that the last time they came by to visually inspect the neighborhood was probably when the house was built 30yrs ago. there would be notes in the property file otherwise showing any subsequent property inspections. a couple years later they did but it was drive-by pictures from the street which showed no external change.

permit for a pool? ok, that's another $25k on top of the value, regardless of pool size or condition. they are also not allowed to trespass on property at any time, they must be invited on or given permission by the homeowner. this is why they resort to satellite photos and drive by photos from the street when they do it to check on additions to a property.

counties may appraise, but it is the various cities that require the permit. and if you live in the country......

I'm not saying be cute but definitely know how to work the system to your advantage

 

[Texas82GP]

It's been a month so I guess it's time for an update. I'll start by ripping off the band-aid and breaking the bad news: we're not going to build this year. The house, pool and shop are all coming in overbudget. We're going to stay where we are and save for another year and that should put us in a good position. Hopefully lumber and steel prices, and prices in general will calm down a little in that time.

My brother and sister-in-law took out a home improvement loan on our current house back in 2018 and built a large patio cover with an outdoor kitchen and bar. After we decided we weren't going to build this year, they went ahead and paid off that loan which saved them around $7k on interest. They also went ahead and paid off the new lot where we're going to build. I didn't calculate the interest savings on it, but it is substantial. This will also have the benefit of greatly simplifying the construction loan when we decide to pull the trigger. There will only be around 7 years of a 15 year mortgage left on the current house to factor in. With us owning the land out there and having as much cash as we're projecting, we should pretty well be in the driver's seat.

Now for the good news. There has been some significant progress made from a planning perspective.....

Pool:
My sister-in-law did quite a bit of research on what we want for the pool and even had a few meetings with pool companies. Here's a rendering of what she has come up with so far:

It's a pretty good sized pool at an estimated 415 square feet and 14,000 gallons. It ranges from 3-6 feet deep. It's a gunite pool. It'll have the tanning shelf, a few benches along the sides and the built in bar stools on the shallow end which will be close to the house's built in patio. It will also have the hot tub and the water feature. The knowledge gained from the process was very helpful. Now we have a much better idea of what we want and what it will cost. It also helped me from a site planning perspective (more on that below).

Shop:
I got a quote on a pole barn that Sean and I think will do what we want and that we can work into the budget. It's 50'x40'x14'. It will have a single 12'x12' roll up door for vehicular access, a walk in door, an 8'x8' roll up door for access to the 12'x12' shed we'll frame in, and four windows. It would look something like below but wouldn't include the lean-to. We'll have to add that later if we want it. It came in at $50k including concrete, doors, windows, and installation. We'll still have to provide site work, permitting, electrical, plumbing, insulation, etc. It will be a nice shop. it will provide five 12'x24' spaces for cars, the 12'x12' shed for lawn equipment, etc., a bathroom, and still have plenty of room for benches, tool boxes, the compressor, etc. I intend to start working on a layout soon. Here's a look at what it might look like....

Site Plan:
I'm working on the site plan. I'm no Civil Engineer but with 20 years of Land Surveying experience and having worked with Civil Engineers, all this time, I'm not a total novice either. About a month ago, I brought home a copy of the survey. We used highlighters and marked the trees on a tiered system of Tier 1 (really want to try to save), Tier 2 (would like to save), Tier 3 (unknown species trees of decent size) and Tier 4 (don't care - sweet gums and smaller stuff). I also printed outlines of the house, shop, pool and paving from my first draft of the site plan (done before the survey was performed) on translucent film. That way, we could cut them out and move them around on the site to see how and where they fit. We met as a family and worked on placement of the buildings and paving to try to minimize tree removal but also check all the boxes on the wants list. That yielded this....

The translucent film is literally just taped on in the above. I've since worked on it in CADD and it currently looks like this....

The heavy dashed lines around the house and the shop are a 20' perimeter where we'll remove existing trees. We'll have a perimeter fence around the lot itself but then will have a decorative, inner fence between the house and the shop that will define our back yard and keep the dogs in. We'll spend far more time back there than out front. It is somewhere around 10k square feet as shown so it's larger than the lot we currently live on.

I'm using the plan above to prepare a tree removal plan that I can send out to land clearing companies to get bids. At this point, we just want it for budgeting purposes. I'm also working on using the site plan and the survey to estimate the volume of select fill we'll need to bring in to build the pads for the house, the pool decking and the shop so we can budget that as well.

More to come.....

 

[motorheadmike]

It's been a month so I guess it's time for an update. I'll start by ripping off the band-aid and breaking the bad news: we're not going to build this year. The house, pool and shop are all coming in overbudget. We're going to stay where we are and save for another year and that should put us in a good position. Hopefully lumber and steel prices, and prices in general will calm down a little in that time.

My brother and sister-in-law took out a home improvement loan on our current house back in 2018 and built a large patio cover with an outdoor kitchen and bar. After we decided we weren't going to build this year, they went ahead and paid off that loan which saved them around $7k on interest. They also went ahead and paid off the new lot where we're going to build. I didn't calculate the interest savings on it, but it is substantial. This will also have the benefit of greatly simplifying the construction loan when we decide to pull the trigger. There will only be around 7 years of a 15 year mortgage left on the current house to factor in. With us owning the land out there and having as much cash as we're projecting, we should pretty well be in the driver's seat.

Now for the good news. There has been some significant progress made from a planning perspective.....

Pool:
My sister-in-law did quite a bit of research on what we want for the pool and even had a few meetings with pool companies. Here's a rendering of what she has come up with so far:

View attachment 191483


View attachment 191484

It's a pretty good sized pool at an estimated 415 square feet and 14,000 gallons. It ranges from 3-6 feet deep. It's a gunite pool. It'll have the tanning shelf, a few benches along the sides and the built in bar stools on the shallow end which will be close to the house's built in patio. It will also have the hot tub and the water feature. The knowledge gained from the process was very helpful. Now we have a much better idea of what we want and what it will cost. It also helped me from a site planning perspective (more on that below).

Shop:
I got a quote on a pole barn that Sean and I think will do what we want and that we can work into the budget. It's 50'x40'x14'. It will have a single 12'x12' roll up door for vehicular access, a walk in door, an 8'x8' roll up door for access to the 12'x12' shed we'll frame in, and four windows. It would look something like below but wouldn't include the lean-to. We'll have to add that later if we want it. It came in at $50k including concrete, doors, windows, and installation. We'll still have to provide site work, permitting, electrical, plumbing, insulation, etc. It will be a nice shop. it will provide five 12'x24' spaces for cars, the 12'x12' shed for lawn equipment, etc., a bathroom, and still have plenty of room for benches, tool boxes, the compressor, etc. I intend to start working on a layout soon. Here's a look at what it might look like....

View attachment 191487

View attachment 191488

Site Plan:
I'm working on the site plan. I'm no Civil Engineer but with 20 years of Land Surveying experience and having worked with Civil Engineers, all this time, I'm not a total novice either. About a month ago, I brought home a copy of the survey. We used highlighters and marked the trees on a tiered system of Tier 1 (really want to try to save), Tier 2 (would like to save), Tier 3 (unknown species trees of decent size) and Tier 4 (don't care - sweet gums and smaller stuff). I also printed outlines of the house, shop, pool and paving from my first draft of the site plan (done before the survey was performed) on translucent film. That way, we could cut them out and move them around on the site to see how and where they fit. We met as a family and worked on placement of the buildings and paving to try to minimize tree removal but also check all the boxes on the wants list. That yielded this....

View attachment 191489

The translucent film is literally just taped on in the above. I've since worked on it in CADD and it currently looks like this....

View attachment 191490

The heavy dashed lines around the house and the shop are a 20' perimeter where we'll remove existing trees. We'll have a perimeter fence around the lot itself but then will have a decorative, inner fence between the house and the shop that will define our back yard and keep the dogs in. We'll spend far more time back there than out front. It is somewhere around 10k square feet as shown so it's larger than the lot we currently live on.

I'm using the plan above to prepare a tree removal plan that I can send out to land clearing companies to get bids. At this point, we just want it for budgeting purposes. I'm also working on using the site plan and the survey to estimate the volume of select fill we'll need to bring in to build the pads for the house, the pool decking and the shop so we can budget that as well.

More to come.....

Wow. Pretty amazing amount of effort there.

 

[86LK]

It's been a month so I guess it's time for an update. I'll start by ripping off the band-aid and breaking the bad news: we're not going to build this year. The house, pool and shop are all coming in overbudget. We're going to stay where we are and save for another year and that should put us in a good position. Hopefully lumber and steel prices, and prices in general will calm down a little in that time.

My brother and sister-in-law took out a home improvement loan on our current house back in 2018 and built a large patio cover with an outdoor kitchen and bar. After we decided we weren't going to build this year, they went ahead and paid off that loan which saved them around $7k on interest. They also went ahead and paid off the new lot where we're going to build. I didn't calculate the interest savings on it, but it is substantial. This will also have the benefit of greatly simplifying the construction loan when we decide to pull the trigger. There will only be around 7 years of a 15 year mortgage left on the current house to factor in. With us owning the land out there and having as much cash as we're projecting, we should pretty well be in the driver's seat.

Now for the good news. There has been some significant progress made from a planning perspective.....

Pool:
My sister-in-law did quite a bit of research on what we want for the pool and even had a few meetings with pool companies. Here's a rendering of what she has come up with so far:




View attachment 191484

It's a pretty good sized pool at an estimated 415 square feet and 14,000 gallons. It ranges from 3-6 feet deep. It's a gunite pool. It'll have the tanning shelf, a few benches along the sides and the built in bar stools on the shallow end which will be close to the house's built in patio. It will also have the hot tub and the water feature. The knowledge gained from the process was very helpful. Now we have a much better idea of what we want and what it will cost. It also helped me from a site planning perspective (more on that below).

saving money on the interest, value of current property keeps increasing, = a good thing

regarding swimming pool.....
unless you've had one you don't know how expensive they can be.

costs: cost to fill it up with 14k gallons of fresh water (your neighborhood water supplier is saying 'CHA-CHING!'), the continuous need to keep refilling due to evaporation, the continuous chemical purchases to keep it in balance (just as long as you're aware of those issues)
you may want to look at alternative options such as saltwater, or using a UV sanitizer to keep it germ free. also think about having a pool cover to keep evaporation down.
IIRC your property was on the downhill side of the street, wondering if the water table will affect the swimming pool?

 

[Texas82GP]

Continued from previous post....

Geotech:
We authorized the Geotechnical Engineer about a month ago. They drilled four soil cores onsite last week. They are 4" in diameter, 15'-20' deep. These cores are studied and then the Engineer prepares a report detailing the soil conditions. The report is used by the Structural Engineer to prepare the design for the foundation. They drilled two cores where the house is proposed and two where the shop is proposed. Here is a portion of one of the cores we found onsite last weekend....

I expect we'll receive the report from the Geotech in the next week or so. I'm not sure if we'll authorize the Structural Engineer immediately once we do or not. We'll get together and make a decision on it at that time.

The previous weekend (1/23), Sean and I went out there and staked the envelope of the house and the shop. We just did it roughly buy two-taping off of the trees shown on the survey. I'm sure the stakes are all within a foot of actual location though. We did this since we knew the Geotech would be out there the following week to drill. It's pretty hard to get good pictures of the stakes but here are a few. This shot is from southwest of the southwest corner of shop looking northwesterly. You have to look hard but all four stakes for the shop are visible in this picture....

In this shot, the stake for the northeast corner of the shop is in the foreground and the stake for the southwest corner of the shop is over on the right hand side of the picture in about the midground. In the background is Sean's truck out on the roadway with me close by....

If you look hard in this picture, you can see the stakes for the four primary corners of the house. The east (right) side of the house is shorter than the west (left or garage) side...

You start to realize how big (to us) the lot is with the stakes in the ground. Those front stakes are like 105 feet from the edge of asphalt roadway paving or about 95 feet from the right-of-way line. The minimum front building setback is 75' feet so we're about 20 feet beyond that. We don't want to go further back as we want to maximize our back yard. We plan to plant trees in this open area (front yard) after construction.

Construction on the approaches on both sides of the bridge over the creek is ongoing. Progress seems slow since they completed the bridge but it isn't holding us up. We're just looking forward to paved access to the lot. They've clearly been working on drainage improvements along side both approaches but it is no longer clear to me what is left to do and what the hold up is.

There are probably half a dozen other lots in our section (79 lots in ours) that have been underbrushed so other folks are moving forward. We might not be the first ones living out there after all.

I'm not sure if I mentioned it in a previous post or not but I went through the process with the County and got an address assigned to our lot so that's more progress.

Looking forward, it's maximum effort on saving money and then the other focus will be on getting a better grip on some more of the costs like clearing, sitework, fencing and items for the shop (rough plumbing, electrical, insulation, hvac?, etc.).

I guess that's it for now friends. I'll update again when there is news to report. Thanks for following along.