Engine Swaps? What's the real story?

[dougfather]

.......Perhaps PA is a tad more lenyant .... certainly more so than California - which correct me if I am wrong - the OP is from there and NOT Pennsylvania! So PA state laws do not apply to CA.

PA is actually county dependant. Blair county, where i'm from, has a spot check and gas cap test. HOWEVER, classic and antique plates are exempt, but like said before, those plates have more restrictions. They have a site to tell you what you need, county by county.

http://www.ahs2.dep.state.pa.us/aq_apps/emissions/test.htm

 

[beeterolds]

Hey if it makes you guys feel better.. my 10.0 403 passed smog sniffer test in Ohio WAYYY better than the old 3.8 ever did.. and i did it only with a Converter and a Pcv valve and proper tuning... i have the inspection papers to prove it too 😉

Yeah, but the problem is that the spot check sniffer test that states do is just that - a spot check. It only checks emissions at one or two RPM points. The federal EPA certification process covers a wide range of operating conditions and takes weeks to complete. Clearly that isn't practical for bi-annual inspections. The sniffer test, combined with the visual inspection, is intended to be a compromise between a thorough inspection and convenience. The philosophy is that if the car passes the sniffer at a limited number of test points AND the required equipment is connected and appears to be functioning, then there's a reasonable chance that the car is clean enough under all operating conditions.

Again, there is a big difference between the letter of the law and the real world. The law is well documented - you certainly shouldn't believe me, you should read it for yourself. As I also noted previously, there is federal law and state law. They don't always match, so AGAIN, do your homework. Finally, as I have also noted, the real world aspect of testing depends on humans who usually DON'T understand the details of engine swaps and almost certainly don't know how to check casting numbers. All they know is that when they punch a VIN into the test computer, it spits out a list of what equipment should be in place. Can you get something past these guys? Almost certainly. It's the "almost" part that should concern you. If the swap does get discovered, there is no exemption and no limit to how much you are required to spend to return the car to compliance. You will always hear anecdotal "evidence" from someone who has gotten something past emissions. That doesn't mean it will pass the next time or that yours will pass.

With that, I'm done with this thread. Good luck with your swaps.

Good point! they do the idle.. and 25mph checks..

Fortunately for me and my other engine swapping buddies.. we also fall under the "anything 25yrs and older is exempt!" My cars an 83 so.. ive been good for 2 yrs now 😉 until they revise that law and i have to toss cats back on the car cause they want me to test again! Thanks for your input Joe!

 

[dan2286]

Hey if it makes you guys feel better.. my 10.0 403 passed smog sniffer test in Ohio WAYYY better than the old 3.8 ever did.. and i did it only with a Converter and a Pcv valve and proper tuning... i have the inspection papers to prove it too 😉

Yeah, but the problem is that the spot check sniffer test that states do is just that - a spot check. It only checks emissions at one or two RPM points. The federal EPA certification process covers a wide range of operating conditions and takes weeks to complete. Clearly that isn't practical for bi-annual inspections. The sniffer test, combined with the visual inspection, is intended to be a compromise between a thorough inspection and convenience. The philosophy is that if the car passes the sniffer at a limited number of test points AND the required equipment is connected and appears to be functioning, then there's a reasonable chance that the car is clean enough under all operating conditions.

Again, there is a big difference between the letter of the law and the real world. The law is well documented - you certainly shouldn't believe me, you should read it for yourself. As I also noted previously, there is federal law and state law. They don't always match, so AGAIN, do your homework. Finally, as I have also noted, the real world aspect of testing depends on humans who usually DON'T understand the details of engine swaps and almost certainly don't know how to check casting numbers. All they know is that when they punch a VIN into the test computer, it spits out a list of what equipment should be in place. Can you get something past these guys? Almost certainly. It's the "almost" part that should concern you. If the swap does get discovered, there is no exemption and no limit to how much you are required to spend to return the car to compliance. You will always hear anecdotal "evidence" from someone who has gotten something past emissions. That doesn't mean it will pass the next time or that yours will pass.

With that, I'm done with this thread. Good luck with your swaps.

Good point! they do the idle.. and 25mph checks..

Fortunately for me and my other engine swapping buddies.. we also fall under the "anything 25yrs and older is exempt!" My cars an 83 so.. ive been good for 2 yrs now 😉 until they revise that law and i have to toss cats back on the car cause they want me to test again! Thanks for your input Joe!

We also have no form of visual inspection besides checking for a cat. It really makes it easy to pass as long as you can get it to pass the sniffer. If that is not possible, you can register the car in a different county as long you you know someone who lives there.

 

[jordanfr13]

After reading this thread I really feel for you guys. Here in Manitoba, the only "emissions testing" you have to do is have a cat converter, and only if your car is newer than 1992. Any G-body in Manitoba can have any type of exhaust the owner wants, as long as it isn't too loud.

 

[sdaniels8]

Everything mentioned in this thread is very good information. The reality of the situation is that you can do whatever you want, follow your local laws. There is truly no need to slam a 750 CFM manual 4 barrel on a car and make a bunch of smoke and noise. The technology exists to build serious horsepower without the needless waste. The problem always is the money. I am as much to blame as anyone else. We could easily build a total street ripper for super cheap. In reality this car was always a tempermental toy. Using todays technology we can build an engine that lives very well with low compression and can deliver the goods when needed. Octane levels have fallen off the chart, compression levels have dropped to pathetic, I think we all see where the future is going. The problem is ponying up for the price. The bad part is that most of these exotic engines meet most of the emissions requirements with simple cat converters. In the end these cars are more user friendly than what we gearheads are used to. The unfortuate outcome is the price we have to pay.

 

[DrRansom442]

"The reality of the situation is that you can do whatever you want"

sure if you don't mind the idea of never registerring your car again - check local laws (especially in California)

 

[blizack]

So using the information from the first few comments, can I swap a 305 sbc to 350 sbc and keep my ccc?

 

[STL84Calais]

I'd look into this just a tad deeper. Yes, you can qualify for historic plates .... but do you ever plan on actually DRIVING your car any place? The mileage restrictions for historic plates are insane and they require you to log your trips. Yes, you do not have to have a test run on your car 95 and older but Missouri added a visual inspection of emmissions componentry into your safety. Trust me this was a wee bit of a shocker for me. Given my exhaust. Hedman headers, no cats and a lack of ANY emmissions components .... number 4 heads ensure I have no means to hook up A.I.R. tubes. I will be forced to get a blackmarket safety just to put plates onto my 81.

I don't really plan on driving the car that much, so I should be fine.