Dude, the Fakebook, Twatter, Gettr, Gab, YouTurd comment sections are that way... ==>
Tone it down.
Have Electric Cars finally killed muscle cars???
- Thread starter Mikej89
- Start date
Dude, the Fakebook, Twatter, Gettr, Gab, YouTurd comment sections are that way... ==>
Tone it down.
It is kind of funny that the OEMs were generally protected by ignorance on the software side from the time of EFI's inception in the mid-80s. Sure chips and flash tuning happened, but it wasn't like the days of timing lights and screw drivers. The funny part is when tuning software suites came out in the late-90s where anyone could go nuts ruining factory tunes without consequence as the OEMs had no safe guards. Now in the current state of things the OEMs are using encryption and anti-tampering methods to prevent electronic circumvention. With the obvious next step being monitoring everything all the time OTA.
This is where the right to repair battle becomes the death of the muscle car. We, as hotrodders, want to tinker for speed and enjoyment. The OEMs cannot afford this model because it impacts their bottom line. So, to your point, it is a service-based or a la carte upgrade scheme where the OEMs offer unlockable warranty supported upgrades.
The problem is it takes it, the interaction of making the modification and the sense of accomplishment (and relationship building with said vehicle and brand), out of the hands of the enthusiasts. This emotive connection is what made the muscle car, the muscle car. Sure there are lots of chequebooker hotrodders out there but they aren't cut from the same cloth as the traditional hotrodder.
I don't care about your EV specs and stats.
Well.... The thread is about EV's & their impact on 'muscle cars' (muscle cars currently being the high performance variants made & sold to the public via automotive dealers). Those that live & breathe hotrods & high performance being a minority is relative to the thread topic. It may not be relative to your viewpoint, but that's not what the thread was about.
"EV's and their place in the World" would be a different topic/thread.
Yes, the current flock of EV's are not 'Hot Rod' (AKA owner conducted performance modification) friendly
But neither are 98% of modern ICE cars.
In my eyes, the majority of grass roots hotrodding is putting a bigger/more powerful engine in a smaller car or something that rolled down the factory line with a smaller engine option.
In 1977 you could take a powertrain from a wrecked or rusted out mundane family cruiser (think 1968 Catalina) and drop the 455 into the engine bay of a factory I6 firebird.
Same with a 351W out of a big Mercury and drop it into a Mustang
Same with a 440 from an Imperial into a Dart.
Today trucks (Coyote F150's or LS Sierra's) fill those donor rolls. Lots of Coyote or LS's going into 2004 Mustangs, G bodies, or Nissan stuff.
But what does a modern Equinox, Rav4 or Audi SUV provide to the hotrodding community? Zilch. No transmissions, wheels, brakes, ect. And what platforms are there to swap? There are very few low cost RWD engine swap friendly platforms these days. Certainly you could take a turbo 2.7 from a Lincoln MKz sedan and put it in a NA 2.0 focus, but does anybody want to try to make a FWD work? EH.....?
I think the biggest issue today that will bite in the future is the lack of worthwhile donors and chassis that are worth a crap to swap. Pickup sales have gone up so V8 or large disp. turbo 6 options are plentiful today and will be for 15+ years, but what chassis are you going to use when all the fox chassis or G bodies run out? The only RWD chassis worth swapping will be 5th gen camaro's, S550 mustang, some nissan stuff, maybe a BRZ, but all low volume stuff that people generally care about. Is anyone going to want to coyote swap a subaru forester in 10 years? Doubt it.
Does EV's make it harder? Yeah, but the controls tech will catch up. Even so, buying an electric motor or battery through salvage from something like an electric bus or something might be an option in 10-15 years when they start getting scrapped, but what are you going to swap into? A chevy Bolt? A Dodge Journey? A Hyundai something? No, because none of those chassis are worth doing anything 'fun' with (drag racing, rally cross, autocross)
I rate EV disruption to hotrodding like a 5/10, it's there, and significant, but I rate EFI's introduction maybe a 4/10. the lack of worthwhile platforms is like 8/10. Govt. regulation is about the only thing that gets 9 or 10/10.
But neither are 98% of modern ICE cars.
In my eyes, the majority of grass roots hotrodding is putting a bigger/more powerful engine in a smaller car or something that rolled down the factory line with a smaller engine option.
In 1977 you could take a powertrain from a wrecked or rusted out mundane family cruiser (think 1968 Catalina) and drop the 455 into the engine bay of a factory I6 firebird.
Same with a 351W out of a big Mercury and drop it into a Mustang
Same with a 440 from an Imperial into a Dart.
Today trucks (Coyote F150's or LS Sierra's) fill those donor rolls. Lots of Coyote or LS's going into 2004 Mustangs, G bodies, or Nissan stuff.
But what does a modern Equinox, Rav4 or Audi SUV provide to the hotrodding community? Zilch. No transmissions, wheels, brakes, ect. And what platforms are there to swap? There are very few low cost RWD engine swap friendly platforms these days. Certainly you could take a turbo 2.7 from a Lincoln MKz sedan and put it in a NA 2.0 focus, but does anybody want to try to make a FWD work? EH.....?
I think the biggest issue today that will bite in the future is the lack of worthwhile donors and chassis that are worth a crap to swap. Pickup sales have gone up so V8 or large disp. turbo 6 options are plentiful today and will be for 15+ years, but what chassis are you going to use when all the fox chassis or G bodies run out? The only RWD chassis worth swapping will be 5th gen camaro's, S550 mustang, some nissan stuff, maybe a BRZ, but all low volume stuff that people generally care about. Is anyone going to want to coyote swap a subaru forester in 10 years? Doubt it.
Does EV's make it harder? Yeah, but the controls tech will catch up. Even so, buying an electric motor or battery through salvage from something like an electric bus or something might be an option in 10-15 years when they start getting scrapped, but what are you going to swap into? A chevy Bolt? A Dodge Journey? A Hyundai something? No, because none of those chassis are worth doing anything 'fun' with (drag racing, rally cross, autocross)
I rate EV disruption to hotrodding like a 5/10, it's there, and significant, but I rate EFI's introduction maybe a 4/10. the lack of worthwhile platforms is like 8/10. Govt. regulation is about the only thing that gets 9 or 10/10.
You're absolutely right. It was the whole 'security by obscurity' approach. And I think this whole concept if a bigger threat to the car community on general. Manufacturers are considering all the software as their Intellectual Property and while you may buy the car that contains said software, you do not own said software. But they take it a step further and say the software is integral to the product and we're free to do whatever we wish with the software - include update it at any time without your consent. Difficult with most of today's cars, but more and more are coming with a 4G/5G connection. And the largest manufacturer of EV is also building a global satellite network..... you don't even need a tin foil hat to see where that could be leading.
The modding community has and will continue to evolve with the technology. The EV modding community will develop - hell they've been around for longer than EVs were popularized. They'll get the same level of satisfaction and enjoyment out of their accomplishments as you have with V8s. The kid running 12s in his modded Nissan probably has the same emotive satisfaction and sense of accomplishment out of messing with his 240 as you do with muscle cars. All these groups have their own version of the halo cars like the muscle cars guys did with the SS's and Hemi's of the day.
Pretty soon we will be in the same boat as the Model T guys. "The Gubmint done banned my wood spoke wheels!" 
Yup, my brother was prototyping speed parts for Teslas years ago. That said, I am not sold on the emotive connection being the same. In fact, I would call it a false equivalent as it relates to the experience gained from working on an EV to ICE to steam to a horse and buggy. The levels of complexity, skill, danger, and frustration vary with each form of propulsion. They are all unique.
But, that's the point of the discussion: The muscle car thrill dies with the EV thrill.
I do like my Starlink - at least until the thought police turn it off for wrong think. 😉
You’ve described every reason to build an air tight shed to fill with plastic wrapped V’s of your choice.
There an excellent chance that the shed full of motors will be a retirement package 30 years from now lol. Think about it (if you succumb to the world will be all EV in 3050), what will an aluminum 5.3, 6.0 , BB_anything be worth then when they already are hitting $1000-1500 for junkyard garbage.
That is assuming that the performance snobs of the future would value them at all or look down on them with scorn like how many LS guys do to classic gen engines today. Hotrodders like other consumers are easily influenced by automotive marketers. Just consume product and get excited for next product.
