Have Electric Cars finally killed muscle cars???

[ck80]

This topic sure did move a long way since I took a couple days off the board due to horrible pop-up ads making it unusable on my mobile device....

We covered a lot of ground, but, I'd like to point out a couple things.

1) gbodies aren't the last mass produced easy to swap rwd vehicles out there. They're just the flavor of the month. The cars are about 40 years old, but everyone acts like there aren't millions of crown vics/marquis, chargers, challengers out there so on so forth.

2) the cars didn't start out easy to swap. Instead, it was the development of bolt in mounts in boxes and such that made the swaps easier that made the difference. The same thing can just as easily be made and done with other platforms, it just hasn't yet.

3) I've always felt there were two distinct schools of hotrodding. One where you took whatever you could scrounge on a budget to make a vehicle perform better - speed, handling, appearance, you name it. And the second took newer tech and stuffed it in the older body to go fast.

I don't think either school of hot rodding is going anywhere. There's a whole new world in ev conversions for old vehicles, its just a case of which cars can be easily adapted. A 1972 caddy is easier to stuff a battery pack into than a 2002 civic... at least right now. And any truck or true suv is fair game. Then as far as stuffing old stuff into something, well, a lot of that will get cheaper when the interest in it dies off some, and if you doubt it look at what double hump heads go for now compared to 20 years ago.

 

[mclellan83]

There are times that I'm not sure whether I should trust you with a Walmart security job or a tune up on my lawnmower.

🙂🙂

Electrical isn't any more scary than fuel, it's just like a different section of pornhub, eventually you'll get aroused by it.

Sorry to hear you are the fun police. I remember when you used to be cool.

 

[scoti]

This topic sure did move a long way since I took a couple days off the board due to horrible pop-up ads making it unusable on my mobile device....

We covered a lot of ground, but, I'd like to point out a couple things.

1) gbodies aren't the last mass produced easy to swap rwd vehicles out there. They're just the flavor of the month. The cars are about 40 years old, but everyone acts like there aren't millions of crown vics/marquis, chargers, challengers out there so on so forth.

2) the cars didn't start out easy to swap. Instead, it was the development of bolt in mounts in boxes and such that made the swaps easier that made the difference. The same thing can just as easily be made and done with other platforms, it just hasn't yet.

3) I've always felt there were two distinct schools of hotrodding. One where you took whatever you could scrounge on a budget to make a vehicle perform better - speed, handling, appearance, you name it. And the second took newer tech and stuffed it in the older body to go fast.

I don't think either school of hot rodding is going anywhere. There's a whole new world in ev conversions for old vehicles, its just a case of which cars can be easily adapted. A 1972 caddy is easier to stuff a battery pack into than a 2002 civic... at least right now. And any truck or true suv is fair game. Then as far as stuffing old stuff into something, well, a lot of that will get cheaper when the interest in it dies off some, and if you doubt it look at what double hump heads go for now compared to 20 years ago.

I agree w/the concept but see one glaring difference/concern..... Like mentioned, the grass-roots of hot rodding was/is the budget built mods to make a vehicle perform better. Used motors plucked from cars/trucks in wrecking yards have supplied many a heart transplant. While the Model-T/Model-A market is still going, I worry about our future hot-rodders & what/where they'll source budget/used parts if/when ICE options cease on the market considering how the EPA & local efforts are killing off many wrecking yards (the main source for those budget friendly used parts).

Current EV retrofit stuff for a ICE transplant isn't cheap by any stretch of the imagination. I've followed some neat builds online but none of them seem to utilize an electric motor pulled from a wrecked vehicle. I know it's early in the EV curve so hopefully swap options become grass-roots budget friendly for the young-guns coming up. And.... I suppose as the rules change, the smart guys always seem to be able to adapt & figure out new avenues to allow getting things done.

I just hope in 50yrs the guy like me can navigate some budget friendly wrenching on their machine of choice.

 

[69hurstolds]

1) gbodies aren't the last mass produced easy to swap rwd vehicles out there. They're just the flavor of the month. The cars are about 40 years old, but everyone acts like there aren't millions of crown vics/marquis, chargers, challengers out there so on so forth.

You're in church. Act like it. You should get your mouth washed out with soap for saying such things. Non-believer. 🙂

IMO, despite their drawbacks, G-bodies were the last mass produced RWD that was worth a sh*t and actually worth restoring. It all died for me after December of 1987. Society has since tried, and failed, to replicate the aura of the G-body for me. There's really nothing more to that story. I really loved the G-bodies even when they were new. Even though it was gutless, I fell in love with the '79 H/O's body lines. I do admit, later on, when I first started looking at new G-body H/Os on the lot I examined the clearances between the frame rails thinking about how a 455 could replace the 307 rather easily, and the transmission tunnel opening looked very inviting for a TH400. But to this day I still WANT to get behind the wheel of a G-body (or older A-body too).

Hot rodding will always be with us as long as the liberties exist to allow it. The pockets will need to get deeper to do it up right, though. One major problem is all the proprietary software with encryption, et al., that has to go along with many of the newer drivetrains just to get it to work. Meaning a weekend swap taking out the 6 cylinder and popping in that big block is no longer in the equation. Out on Friday, driving by Sunday isn't going to happen. Even the "checkbook warriors" will have a heckuva time getting those Lingenfelter or other top tier conversion facilities to up their game because unless the car companies allow them access to the software (which means picking winners and losers in the aftermarket) then even those companies could go out of business.

I'm no longer interested in doing the hot rodding game for myself anymore anyway. I've lived my share of it. Headers, cam, headwork and intake systems with a matching distributor curve modification used to be standard fair along with rear gear swap outs when warranted. And today, I'm too old, too dumb, or too lazy to bother learning about software to be able to tune an OBDII EFI engine system. It's like anything else though. I could probably do it if I was interested, but it just doesn't excite me.

 

[ck80]

You're in church. Act like it. You should get your mouth washed out with soap for saying such things. Non-believer. 🙂

IMO, despite their drawbacks, G-bodies were the last mass produced RWD that was worth a sh*t and actually worth restoring. It all died for me after December of 1987. Society has since tried, and failed, to replicate the aura of the G-body for me. There's really nothing more to that story. I really loved the G-bodies even when they were new. Even though it was gutless, I fell in love with the '79 H/O's body lines. I do admit, later on, when I first started looking at new G-body H/Os on the lot I examined the clearances between the frame rails thinking about how a 455 could replace the 307 rather easily, and the transmission tunnel opening looked very inviting for a TH400. But to this day I still WANT to get behind the wheel of a G-body (or older A-body too).

Hot rodding will always be with us as long as the liberties exist to allow it. The pockets will need to get deeper to do it up right, though. One major problem is all the proprietary software with encryption, et al., that has to go along with many of the newer drivetrains just to get it to work. Meaning a weekend swap taking out the 6 cylinder and popping in that big block is no longer in the equation. Out on Friday, driving by Sunday isn't going to happen. Even the "checkbook warriors" will have a heckuva time getting those Lingenfelter or other top tier conversion facilities to up their game because unless the car companies allow them access to the software (which means picking winners and losers in the aftermarket) then even those companies could go out of business.

I'm no longer interested in doing the hot rodding game for myself anymore anyway. I've lived my share of it. Headers, cam, headwork and intake systems with a matching distributor curve modification used to be standard fair along with rear gear swap outs when warranted. And today, I'm too old, too dumb, or too lazy to bother learning about software to be able to tune an OBDII EFI engine system. It's like anything else though. I could probably do it if I was interested, but it just doesn't excite me.

To some small extent, cheap will always be a relative concept as well, especially when you consider the costs of new vehicles. Hot rodders today spend more than they used to accounting for inflation. Just the way of things.

Mostly I agree with all the software junk and such, not real interested in dealing with that either. But plenty of people are. And to me, the advantages of a gbody vs a mustang/camaro/challenger/p71/charger/whatever basically are gone as soon as people start using ls engines in them. At that point its just a metal shell the same as anything else that can accommodate rwd could be.

Personally? I prefer the styling and the large 2 dr coupe functionality, including a trunk you can get things in and out of. I also like a smooth loose glide in my steering feedback and feeling like im driving a couch where road surfaces are drowned out by the suspension. Gbody was basically the end of that. The FWD end of the line riviera comes close to eliciting those things, one reason I like them... but still has that FWD problem, and the Eldorado is an expensive northstarightmare in servicing so knocked them out entirely.

 

[Hurricane77]

This topic sure did move a long way since I took a couple days off the board due to horrible pop-up ads making it unusable on my mobile device....

We covered a lot of ground, but, I'd like to point out a couple things.

1) gbodies aren't the last mass produced easy to swap rwd vehicles out there. They're just the flavor of the month. The cars are about 40 years old, but everyone acts like there aren't millions of crown vics/marquis, chargers, challengers out there so on so forth.

2) the cars didn't start out easy to swap. Instead, it was the development of bolt in mounts in boxes and such that made the swaps easier that made the difference. The same thing can just as easily be made and done with other platforms, it just hasn't yet.

3) I've always felt there were two distinct schools of hotrodding. One where you took whatever you could scrounge on a budget to make a vehicle perform better - speed, handling, appearance, you name it. And the second took newer tech and stuffed it in the older body to go fast.

I don't think either school of hot rodding is going anywhere. There's a whole new world in ev conversions for old vehicles, its just a case of which cars can be easily adapted. A 1972 caddy is easier to stuff a battery pack into than a 2002 civic... at least right now. And any truck or true suv is fair game. Then as far as stuffing old stuff into something, well, a lot of that will get cheaper when the interest in it dies off some, and if you doubt it look at what double hump heads go for now compared to 20 years ago.

This is more of the later, But swap options are already popping up. Not cheap but:

ELUMINATOR™ MACH E ELECTRIC MOTOR

ELUMINATOR™ MACH E ELECTRIC MOTOR |Ford Performance Parts

performanceparts.ford.com

280hp/317 lb-ft isn't terrible. And at $4k plus traction invertor/controller and batteries ain't cheap.

And then you got these guys... Like $35k an up. That's just nuts IMO

eGT173 Crate System - Electric GT

eGT173 Universal Plug and Play EV System is our single motor EV Conversion System with broad application. This modest 120hp, 173ft/lbs of torque system is a good fit for a variety of compact vehicles under 3500 lbs with performance equivalent to approximately 200 horsepower ICE engine. Subject...

electricgt.com

But some guys will pay to be on the bleeding edge.

The low budget hotrodder/hackers are the ones rewinding some random DC motor and building battery packs out of used power tool and laptop battery packs. The 'junkyard' looks a lot different for EVs 🙂

 

[Northernregal]

This is more of the later, But swap options are already popping up. Not cheap but:

ELUMINATOR™ MACH E ELECTRIC MOTOR

ELUMINATOR™ MACH E ELECTRIC MOTOR |Ford Performance Parts

performanceparts.ford.com

280hp/317 lb-ft isn't terrible. And at $4k plus traction invertor/controller and batteries ain't cheap.

And then you got these guys... Like $35k an up. That's just nuts IMO

eGT173 Crate System - Electric GT

eGT173 Universal Plug and Play EV System is our single motor EV Conversion System with broad application. This modest 120hp, 173ft/lbs of torque system is a good fit for a variety of compact vehicles under 3500 lbs with performance equivalent to approximately 200 horsepower ICE engine. Subject...

electricgt.com

But some guys will pay to be on the bleeding edge.

The low budget hotrodder/hackers are the ones rewinding some random DC motor and building battery packs out of used power tool and laptop battery packs. The 'junkyard' looks a lot different for EVs 🙂

Ummm.... this is already old news but.... it's not rocket surgery.

Monster Garage Builds Milwaukee V28 Li-Ion Powered Dragster | Toolmonger

Battery price is dropping substantially as time passes so this isn't going to be a game of the wealthy for long.

The price of batteries has declined by 97% in the last three decades

To transition towards low-carbon energy systems, we need low-cost energy storage. Battery costs have been falling quickly.

ourworldindata.org

Luckily ethanol and methanol are easy to make, so convert to E85 and not worry about fuel prices in 25 years.

 

[Hurricane77]

Ummm.... this is already old news but.... it's not rocket surgery.

Monster Garage Builds Milwaukee V28 Li-Ion Powered Dragster | Toolmonger

Battery price is dropping substantially as time passes so this isn't going to be a game of the wealthy for long.

The price of batteries has declined by 97% in the last three decades

To transition towards low-carbon energy systems, we need low-cost energy storage. Battery costs have been falling quickly.

ourworldindata.org

Luckily ethanol and methanol are easy to make, so convert to E85 and not worry about fuel prices in 25 years.

Good thing I'm surrounded by corn fields 😉

 

[64nailhead]

Luckily ethanol and methanol are easy to make, so convert to E85 and not worry about fuel prices in 25 years.

You've found the inverse of the EV requirements. The left is pushing EV's and the right's money people are stopping growable energy.

Perhaps that the inverse, but it's funny to watch the right argue against renewable energy and the left argue the exact opposite. As usual, sensible legislation lay in the middle ground somewhere, but neither side is willing to compromise.

 

[69hurstolds]

Battery price is dropping substantially as time passes so this isn't going to be a game of the wealthy for long.

The price of batteries has declined by 97% in the last three decades

To transition towards low-carbon energy systems, we need low-cost energy storage. Battery costs have been falling quickly.

ourworldindata.org

Depends on whether you look back at when this article was written in mid-2021, or believe the real lithium and carbonate price spikes as of recent time.

Gravity-defying lithium price rally continues with “little relief in sight”

Chinese lithium prices double again in 2022, Benchmark’s mid-March assessment shows with seasonal restart of domestic brine supply unlikely to counter growing deficits.

www.mining.com

The battery prices may come down, perhaps, but the lithium needed? The demand is already pushing prices up and up.