history on how the g body came about? ended?

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Silent viewer

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May 9, 2007
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been awhile since i was on here but i was chatting with my buddy while standing around my 442 and his regal drinking beer :D last night and him and i have always wondered how the g body came about, how/why all the companies (chevy/buick/olds/pontiac) were competing with basically the same car, why the gn went to efi and why it was the only one turbo charged/had a good motor.... why the monte "super sport" disgraced the ss badge with a low power motor when stuff like a 350 tpi was available? and rear disk brakes? the technology was right there and bolted on with ease.... and why on earth did gm give up on the line if 87 and go to mostly front wheel drives??? they were just at the point that they were sweet cars! does anyone have articles or history of any sort on this? links?
 

GP403

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Re: history on how the g bosy came about? ended?

It's just how GM had done it since the 50's, maybe before. Take a look at your standard '57 Chevy/Olds/Pontiac/Buick and they were "platform" cars. Sure there were a lot more differences then, but at the core they were the same basic thing.

BUT. Each division still had some sort of autonomy, although that got chipped away more and more. That carried through to the G Body lines with the GN and the MCSS. For its time that Buick Turbo v6 was the shiznit. AND it was still a time when the S in NASCAR meant "stock" instead of "same" and they wanted to maintain some sort of identity on the track, so you wound up with the 2+2 and Aero....

Plus you had insurance companies which killed off the musclecars in '71, the oil crisis in the mid 70s, increasing mileage standards, and most importantly.... the 55mph speed limit. What did you need power for if you couldn't go over 55, right?

IIRC the reason you didn't get the same 350TPI you could get in a F-body or Corvette had mostly to due with the mileage standards. You had to certify (still?) that your lineup averaged XX MPG. so if you had gas guzzlers like the corvette and cadillac and Impala still around you had to balance it out. Plus they tacked on that gas guzzler tax sometime in the 80's.

As for FWD, it was again based on fuel economy, but also manufacturing. It was cheaper and easier to build them this way. No frames, just a unibody to slap that corporate engine/transaxle combo into instead of fitting up axles-to-frame, body-to-frame, etc. PLUS you had to compete with the Japanese imports which were really coming on strong at the time.... its what people wanted....

I might be wrong on any or all of that, though.... One of these days I'm going to write that G body book and research all of this properly :mrgreen:
 

R/T kota

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Apr 29, 2007
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Re: history on how the g bosy came about? ended?

GP403 said:
As for FWD, it was again based on fuel economy, but also manufacturing. It was cheaper and easier to build them this way. No frames, just a unibody to slap that corporate engine/transaxle combo into instead of fitting up axles-to-frame, body-to-frame, etc. PLUS you had to compete with the Japanese imports which were really coming on strong at the time.... its what people wanted....

I might be wrong on any or all of that, though.... One of these days I'm going to write that G body book and research all of this properly :mrgreen:

Ya you are wrong on that part.
The big three told us thats what we wanted.
As for mileage requirements you are right, they did have to meet an average but with out looking up any numbers, I`m sure the MC SS got about the same mpg as the vette and camaro. If not, it was close.
In short, they basically ditched the G body line up to go with the cheaper manufacturing of the front drive cars. In the early years of fwd, I don't think they really got much better on mileage than the later G body cars. A lot of those fwd cars didn't even have overdrive. Just a 3 speed and a lock up.
 

81cutlass

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Feb 16, 2009
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Re: history on how the g bosy came about? ended?

Ill agree with the "thats what they told us we wanted" comment. Auto mfgers told us we wanted big trucks and suburbans in the late 90's and up becuse thats where the money was. Now they tell us "you want crossovers". Theres still more money there than little cars.

Ive always thought the american car consumer is stupid. They listen to consumer reports, dealers and stuff like that too much. Consumer reports, thats another joke!
 

R/T kota

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Apr 29, 2007
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Re: history on how the g bosy came about? ended?

I have a friend that works at the chrysler plant where they build the chargers, 300s and challengers. One day back when the charger first came out we were all talking about the car and I made a comment that is was a decent car but the charger name should never have found its way on to a 4 door.
We then got the speech about "thats what the public wants" blah blah blah. Everything he said basically sounded like thats what they told him to say. About a month later, I read the almost exact same speech on the net posted by some other chrysler employee at a different plant.
 

patmckinneyracing

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Jan 18, 2009
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Re: history on how the g bosy came about? ended?

As already mentioned, heavy government regulations and the oil crisis is what led to dark times in the automotive market. The oil crisis had led to high gas prices and government regulated standards for manufacturers. With the theory of global warming coming about, a-bodies and g-bodies were the test bed for emission systems. This really hurt the performance of any vehicle during this time as emission systems were in their infancy. Of course there were the insurance companies that stepped in in 71' as a result of so many accidents from the high power muscle cars of the late 60's and up until 1971.

The g-bodies, IMO, were the first ever mass produced set of "disposable cars". During the late 70's and mid 80's, it was all about the cost. The economy at the time was in very poor shape and was in an economic decline until Ronald Reagan came into office. You see in almost all g-bodies that parts are interchangeable except for body panels. This made it cheaper and easier for gm to mass produce cars for all it's automotive branches without having to make a lot of specific parts meant for each type of car. At the same time, the metal used was very poor grade and not as thick as the A-bodies. This meant lighter weight to try and help with gas mileage, but it also led to rust issues which is evident on most of our cars.

Now in the mid 80's is when manufacturers started to go back to the performance roots. The Monte Carlo SS and el camino ss were the first to come back as there was almost no "affordable" performance in the market next to the price of a corvette. Then buick decided to capitalize with the release of the Grand National. As for why it was only a single turbo, the car could break 11's and 10's out of the factory. There was no need for a second turbo and the cost of using a second turbo would have put the GN out of the average "joe blow's" price range.

In general though, the g-bodies were not meant to last. They were cheaply made, mass produced, and were manufactured in a way so that they cost next to nothing and were affordable. They were built around heavy regulations from insurance companies and the government. You can't simply look at just the Monte SS and turbo cars as a representation of g-bodies. If you look at the g-body cars as a whole, they were meant to satisfy insurance companies, the Fed, and society as a whole who wanted a cheap car. Hence why front wheel drive cars came about in the late 80's.

I don't even look at the monte carlo SS as a high performance car because it had the same 305, slightly larger cam, that my 80' malibu had. Only thing it had going for it was a later overdrive trans and larger posi gears. The turbo cars are such a small niche and limited production GM brand in comparison to how many base line malibus, regals, monte carlos, el caminos, station wagons, and other g-bodies.

As for the whole "its what we want" speech in referance to the newer chargers, that's bullsh**. Yeah we really wanted to see an iconic name like "Charger" on a 4 door. We wanted to see a newer version of the charger that retained its retro body styling from the late 60's. The new Challenger is proof of what the public really wanted.
 

R/T kota

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Apr 29, 2007
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Re: history on how the g bosy came about? ended?

patmckinneyracing said:
As already mentioned, heavy government regulations and the oil crisis is what led to dark times in the automotive market. The oil crisis had led to high gas prices and government regulated standards for manufacturers. With the theory of global warming coming about, a-bodies and g-bodies were the test bed for emission systems. This really hurt the performance of any vehicle during this time as emission systems were in their infancy. Of course there were the insurance companies that stepped in in 71' as a result of so many accidents from the high power muscle cars of the late 60's and up until 1971.

Got to correct you on one thing. Back in the 60s there was no talk about global warming. The hype back then was global cooling.


patmckinneyracing said:
As for the whole "its what we want" speech in referance to the newer chargers, that's bullsh**. Yeah we really wanted to see an iconic name like "Charger" on a 4 door. We wanted to see a newer version of the charger that retained its retro body styling from the late 60's. The new Challenger is proof of what the public really wanted.

We all knew that but at the time the 300, magnum and charger all built at the Brampton plant shared the same chassis. They just didn't want to re-tool everything for a 2 door.
When the challenger concept became a hit, they couldn't afford not to build it so they had to build a second line that ran beside the main line for the shorter wheel base challenger.
What they should have done was build the 4 door car but call it a coronet instead of the charger. Now with the second line they can build a 2 door version of the car and call it a charger.
But that makes too much sense.

Here are some pics from the no camera zone at the plant someone I know managed to get just before the challenger hit the show room. http://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/30/dodg ... e-crusher/
 

79loserbluebu

G-Body Guru
May 9, 2009
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Re: history on how the g bosy came about? ended?

Sure it's not what the performance community wanted, a come back of a Charger with two extra doors, but look at how many of those ungodly hideous things sold so far.

Really if you think about it, the G-bodies were the last of the GM platforms to retain their respective manufacturers traits... Olds engines in the Cutlass's, Chevy engines in the Chevy's. All brands had different dashes and header panels. The next performance based platform GM had was the 3rd Gen F-bodies, and it's a corporate 350 around the board for them. Even W bodies, same thing.

Also with the FWD, I think again that's not what the performance community wanted, just regular drivers wanted. I'd take a W body with a 3800 in it over a 99' Camaro with a 3800 in the snow or rain, every day.
 

carmangary

G-Body Guru
Oct 13, 2009
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Re: history on how the g bosy came about? ended?

It was the same then as it is now. Except back then it was from big Buick LeSabres to Honda Civics. Today, it is big SUVs to Honda Civics. FWD was mainly a matter of making sense. Turn the engine sideways and get rid of all that extra weight for more room and better gas mileage. Plus, those cars did a lot better in snow.
 

1evilregal

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Apr 23, 2009
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Re: history on how the g bosy came about? ended?

let's not forget another reason for the more-door charger:

BABY BOOMERS...

these are the main reason for the upturn in the return of performance. think about it, they were young during the muscle car era, and now that they're older and have grandkids and older friends to cart around, the want musclecar performance with all the comforts of not having to crawl through/over a seat just to get in... don't get me started on all the gadgetry...

I'm a mopar man at heart, but really lost respect for chrysler when they slapped 2 extra doors on the charger, but gained some back with the release of the challenger..

just be glad the general's men had better sense than to do the same to the camaro.... :puke:
 
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