NV 3500 vs. T5 for manual swap

[Wageslave]

As far as a puzzle goes, I have been doing a lot of reading on the NV 3500 transmission. It turns out that the S10 4.3 version is not a terrible way to go. The early ones were not that strong and were actually called 5LM60, HM-290 and MG-290. These had a tendancy to fail catastrophically. 93 up ones are actually NV 3500's and tend to hold up well, but generally the newer the stronger.

The S10 version is 31 inches long with a shifter position that is almost the same as a T5/T56 if you use a 98+ transmission. If you use an older one, it wil be about 4 inches forward on the case.

As a comparison, the other swap candidate would be a C/K 1500 2wd transmission. It is 28 inches in length and would have a shifter position 7 inches forward of the T5 position. The shifter wont be under the radio or anything but probably wouldn't pop out of the hole in the center console either. Another difference is that the full size transmission has a 32 spline output shaft similiar to what a Turbo 400 transmission uses while the S10 version uses a 27 spline shaft that is compatible with a Turbo 350 or 200-4r. The S10 version has the 3.47 1st gear and the full size has the 4.02.

There is conflicting information on what the 5th gear is for the S10 version, but the consensus on the S10 forums is that the older 5LM60's had a .83 overdrive and the NV 3500's had a .73 overdrive. I'm still a little fuzzy on this so don't take it as gospel.

I've got some more info I might add later, but I have to go to the store...

 

[Wageslave]

One more thing...

The speedometer drive will most likely be electronic. There are a few mechanical ones out there in the early years but they are unicorn rare. There is a tone ring inside the tail shaft that would have to be changed to a gear to convert over to a mechanical drive (if you can find the parts). A converter box that actually drives the cable for the speedometer would probably be the easiest fix.

 

[oldsmobile joe]

"s

The bad thing is that I have 2.73 rear gears, which puts me in a wierd place for my 1st gear ratios.

V8 F-Body T-5 - 2.95x2.73 = 8.0535
S-10 T-5 - 4.03x2.73 = 11.00 or 3.76x2.73 = 10.26
C/K 1500 NV3500 - 4.02x2.73 = 10.97
S-10 NV3500 - 3.49x2.73 = 9.5277

Feel free to correct me if i got my numbers wrong...

what your not seeing here is the bigger picture, the variables.
the v8 fbody is light and has the torque of a v8 and short, or small tires.
the s10 t5, while light, and small tired, has no torque. we add gearing to make up for lack of torque
the c/k, is heavy and has tall tires
the s10 nv3500, light body and small tires.

the fbody t5 and 2.73 gears would drive just fine, may not win a drag race but will drive just fine. and you won't be shifting into second at 5 mph.

So I found a pretty good deal on a 2000 Camaro T-5. I would like to use the hydraulic throwout bearing setup if at all possible. I will be bolting this to a 1 piece rear main seal block 350 which may (i think) limit my flywheel choices to a 168 tooth flywheel though.

I think this is all the correct stuff to get:

2000 Camaro V6 5 speed
350 168 tooth manual flywheel
1990's S10 4.3 Bellhousing
1990's S10 Clutch
2000 Camaro hydraulic throwout bearing

Feel free to let me know if this pile of parts won't fit together correctly or if I need something more.


Haven't figured out exactly what to do for the pedal assembly yet, but that can be worried about a little later.

the 2000 fbody t5 should have this gearing,

3.75 2.19 1.41 1.00 0.72

all t5's starting in 93, gm or ford have a ford mounting pattern and are "world class" trannies. meaning they are stronger than the earlier weaker "non-world class" trannies. i can't vouch for their strength since I'm not the one who drove them and broke them but they have a torque rating around 300ft/lbs.
unfortunately i have no knowledge of the s10 4.3l bell housing transmission pattern you speak of. but there are adapter plates available to mount a ford patterned t5 to a chevy bell housing. check internet, eBay, bendtsen"s speed gems, modern driveline, mccleod, advance adapters to name a few.

don't be afraid to check out ford t5 trannies, they're more plentiful than gm units. and nothing wrong with dirtying the blood to improve the breed.

 

[L67ss]

All 93+ f body t5s are glass

 

[Wageslave]

I am not totally decided either way yet but it did seem odd that everybody dismisses the NV 3500 so quickly. That's why I dug in a little further to see if there was any information and real world experiences. I found that other groups of people (S10 groups and C/K groups) that came from the factory with this transmission (and the T5 in the S10 case) would have some good real world information. I just thought I would share what I learned from them.

I have a hitch on the back of my Elco that I occasionally use. I am stuck not using it right now because that would be an early death for my Turbo 200. That is why I am so hesitant to dive into the T5 pool as I do use my Elco as a truck on occasion.

 

[black_aerocoupe]

Ratios make a lot of difference. It is very hard to beat a V8 GM T5 and 3.73 rear, or similar. The S10 and 4th gen F-body V6 ratios get tiresome to drive, in comparison. I was entirely happy with the NWC and WC V8 f-body T5s I have had in the past.

 

[Wageslave]

I have never been comfortable with diving into differentials, so I will probably stick with the 2.73's. I would hate to lose some of the overdrive gains as it gets driven about 250 miles a week.

 

[olds307 and 403]

It looks like the Dakota version is the strong one with decent gearing. Yet Dakota guys say it isn't strong enough for a 5.9L, most eeked under the 340 ft/lbs mark. My 1998 5.9 was rated at 335 ft/lbs and I am stupid enough to run it in front of the 42RE auto. Although the air box mod and Dynomax mufflers may have put me over that 340 ft/lbs mark.

 

[Wageslave]

Well, I made my decision and bought an NV3500 out of an '02 S10. It looks to be in pretty good shape and comes with a warranty. It does have the higher 3.49 1st gear so it should put me at about 9.43:1.

I took some pictures of the new transmission beside the old Turbo 350 that was in it before the engine and trans got changed for a size comparison.

It does look to be about 3 inches longer so the driveshaft will need cut down, but on the bright side I will get to use my 200-4r crossmember and frame extention kit I got from OPGI and it should be pretty close.

Just by looks the Turbo 350 is actually a little bigger in the bellhousing area and about the same the rest of the way back so I don't think firewall or floor pan clearance will be a problem.

Now I get to save up a little more money and get a new flywheel and clutch assembly...and figure out something for pedals.