Olds 350 Timing Chain Woes

[zipties]

thanks for all the advice everybody. dist was already pulled so no worries breaking it. that's the kind of mistake you make once and never again (especially when it's a 500$ distributor with a fancy cap)

I have the oil draining and am just going to wait for a nice day to finish disassembly, lots of rain forecasted. I'm also going to see if any of the needed parts are on backorder so I can adjust my timeframe accordingly.

backordered parts and all the talk of cork gaskets makes me think about how bad the parts industry has become in the past few years, especially with covid. parts are a lower quality, with lower QA, for higher prices. all of the cork gaskets I've used in the past 3 years just don't seem up to snuff anymore, hell I looked at one of my 700s the other day and it's already sweating a tiny bit with a gasket that's hardly a year old. Meanwhile I have pans on some of my turbo 350s that are bone dry, and i havent swapped their gaskets in years.

it is what it is though. bad parts just add to the experience. I'm probably going to pull the cam for safety's sake, though i have no Olds cams to replace/upgrade it. can almost guarantee it's stock

for all its issues, it always had good OP and I had just changed the oil twice before the jump. i'm sure things got frisky in there but I'd be surprised if there was any serious damage to the internals.

I comained at length in my initial thread, but this car was definitely bubba'd and there's always a reason they're sitting. It's always an uphill battle wrenching on classic cars from this area. They typically get gutted for hobby stock parts, or ran into the ground by half-assed 'hotrodders.'

Not to say I'm leagues above all that. ive never been in the restoration business and rust doesn't bother me. I don't have the budget to get these things to showroom quality even if i wanted to lol. My goal for this car is to just get it back on the street and in once piece.

 

[zipties]

parts ordered. I went with the oil pan gasket set that olds307 linked. fel-pro still seems to be a pretty quality name, i haven't had any issues with their stuff.

I'm looking at their timing chain kit on summit - PN# TCS45270. think this may be an approximation of the kit 69hurstolds mentioned - looks like it's inclusive and even has the bearing seal. If this looks right, i'm going to order it as well.

That should be everything I need. I'm going to check the balancer to make sure it's honed properly, i already have a new water pump, and i should have a lead on new timing gears tomorrow.

i'm not sure if anyone i know has a boroscope but i'm going to look into that as well. guess it would be a good time to replace the valve cover gaskets too...

 

[zipties]

going to be tackling a few other smaller things in conjunction with the timing fix while I wait for parts etc.

Cant get the crank gear off just yet, i'll have to try a puller or something. Not trying to scuff the metal anymore.

Here's a closeup of some of the old junk, including the fragged cam gear.

I might not pull the cam and just take my chances. I really doubt there's anything of concern and im not exactly married to the motor anyway. Will post updates once I slide the pan out, going to be quite a sight probably...

 

[78Delta88]

going to be tackling a few other smaller things in conjunction with the timing fix while I wait for parts etc.

Cant get the crank gear off just yet, i'll have to try a puller or something. Not trying to scuff the metal anymore.

Here's a closeup of some of the old junk, including the fragged cam gear.

View attachment 199437
View attachment 199440
View attachment 199441

I might not pull the cam and just take my chances. I really doubt there's anything of concern and im not exactly married to the motor anyway. Will post updates once I slide the pan out, going to be quite a sight proba

 

[78Delta88]

Before buttoning up you can install the cam gear and spin it by hand and see if you can feel any binding. Of course this means you would have to pull the valve covers loosen the Rockers and remove or move the pushrods out of the way just so you can spin it. The lifters will stay in their holes, then you would have to reset the pushrods and rockers, etc. This at least would let you know if you have any binding or possibly any stuck lifters or other problems. And this you can do without having to remove the intake manifold and etc. which is normally done with a cam change.

 

[78Delta88]

Before buttoning up you can install the cam gear and spin it by hand and see if you can feel any binding. Of course this means you would have to pull the valve covers loosen the Rockers and remove or move the pushrods out of the way just so you can spin it. The lifters will stay in their holes, then you would have to reset the pushrods and rockers, etc. This at least would let you know if you have any binding or possibly any stuck lifters or other problems. And this you can do without having to remove the intake manifold and etc. which is normally done with a cam change.

Of Course, with the front cover off you can just turn over with the starter and see if it seems that it is turning over ok. Just remember to remove power from distributor first. If it is bound up, it will drag the starter.

 

[78Delta88]

Going through some boxes the other day, found the following. Pics below; this is the standard replacement C-3003K from Cloyes,

On your crank gear you can heat it slightly, don't have to get it cherry red. Standard Gear puller will pull it off with no damage to the crank snout. Same with putting the new one on, heat slightly and the press on.

You Tube is not shy on its demonstration of incompetence, but there are several out there that show proper procedure on doing things like changing gear sets, etc...

 

[Texas82GP]

Going through some boxes the other day, found the following. Pics below; this is the standard replacement C-3003K from Cloyes,

On your crank gear you can heat it slightly, don't have to get it cherry red. Standard Gear puller will pull it off with no damage to the crank snout. Same with putting the new one on, heat slightly and the press on.

You Tube is not shy on its demonstration of incompetence, but there are several out there that show proper procedure on doing things like changing gear sets, etc...

Made in USA goooood.

 

[CopperNick]

Big question in my mind is where did all the shrapnel go when it left the timing case? Did it all manage to drop more or less safely into the oil pan, which, yes, definitely needs to be dropped and mined for aluminum and nylon nuggets, or did they get into one of the oil galleries and are still lurking in there?

A cam snatch, even just to check the lobes and bearings, effectively means that the intake has to come off. That is actually an opportunity to see what lies hidden in the lifter valley. Also means you get to pull the push rods and extract the lifters, so off come the rocker covers and the rocker retaining nuts get to be slacked off. You'll need an intake gasket install kit.

Hint: lf your intake gasket set comes with them, lose the china rail rubber gaskets and use a good bead of High Heat RTV instead. Don't need lots, just a good continuous bead from one side/head to the other, about a 1/4 inch tall by the same amount wide. When you lay the manifold back in place drop it straight down and keep any tweaking of the location to a minimum to preserve the integrirty of the line of sealer that you laid. Too much pushing and shoving can tear the bead or force it out of alignment.

First thing to appreciate here is that, at this point, all you have invested in this is time and your own labor. If and when you start finding damage is when things can get expensive real quick.



Nick

 

[zipties]

Big question in my mind is where did all the shrapnel go when it left the timing case? Did it all manage to drop more or less safely into the oil pan, which, yes, definitely needs to be dropped and mined for aluminum and nylon nuggets, or did they get into one of the oil galleries and are still lurking in there?

A cam snatch, even just to check the lobes and bearings, effectively means that the intake has to come off. That is actually an opportunity to see what lies hidden in the lifter valley. Also means you get to pull the push rods and extract the lifters, so off come the rocker covers and the rocker retaining nuts get to be slacked off. You'll need an intake gasket install kit.

Hint: lf your intake gasket set comes with them, lose the china rail rubber gaskets and use a good bead of High Heat RTV instead. Don't need lots, just a good continuous bead from one side/head to the other, about a 1/4 inch tall by the same amount wide. When you lay the manifold back in place drop it straight down and keep any tweaking of the location to a minimum to preserve the integrirty of the line of sealer that you laid. Too much pushing and shoving can tear the bead or force it out of alignment.

First thing to appreciate here is that, at this point, all you have invested in this is time and your own labor. If and when you start finding damage is when things can get expensive real quick.



Nick

As you can see from the recent pic, virtually all of the nylon is gone and several teeth were missing as well. At this time it seems like the vast, vast majority is enjoying a soak in the oil pan.

I had a brainiac moment and forgot to actually confirm the order for my pan gaskets, should be here tomorrow.

My plan right now is to just get the new timing set installed and see if the motor fires... I don't have the opportunity at this time to get the motor out and go through it like I should (and want to) and I'm sure it will still make the car move.

My gameplan is to source another Olds 350 that I can inspect and prepare for the car, then swap it in down the line so that I can get this one rebuilt and put on standby.

I actually had a lead on a 350 that was fairly clean for about 300 bucks, depending on what the final verdict is when this job's done I may pick it up sooner rather than later

I also managed to find an old suntune timing light, paid a whopping 5 dollars for it. Solves the timing problem when all is said and done..