Oversteer help

[pontiacgp]

thanks for pointing that out, definitely the probe type.

For the left front did you try a 1/2 turn on the sway bar to throw a bit more weight on it or increase the rebound of the shock? That tire is hard to set up cause it has an effect on getting the rear to sit down coming out of the corner trying to get the power down. It's always fun to have it all figured it out on paper only to end up throwing the paper away when it doesn't work in real time.....lol

 

[UMI Sales]

thanks for pointing that out, definitely the probe type.

For the left front did you try a 1/2 turn on the sway bar to throw a bit more weight on it or increase the rebound of the shock? That tire is hard to set up cause it has an effect on getting the rear to sit down coming out of the corner trying to get the power down. It's always fun to have it all figured it out on paper only to end up throwing the paper away when it doesn't work in real time.....lol

We did tune with front bar and got it that close (in addition to other tuning methods of course). The Port City late model actually had two adjustable eyes on the frame along with a link on the right side. The left side had a pad on the bar end which slid on a plate under the left strut/arm. The adjustment would control how much lift occurred on the pad.

ramey

 

[pontiacgp]

Port City makes some sweet chassis. A friend of mine got Port City to build him a SS chassis and they came up with a chevelle clip for the front that looked new. Apparently that was the first and only SS chassis they made.

and back to the focus of this thread it would be great (actually mandatory) if you could get a set of scales to check out the metric. You'll need to do your wheel alignment done first cause any changes will change the wedge and weight bias in the car. What do you use to set your wheel alignment?

 

[UMI Sales]

Port City makes some sweet chassis. A friend of mine got Port City to build him a SS chassis and they came up with a chevelle clip for the front that looked new. Apparently that was the first and only SS chassis they made.

and back to the focus of this thread it would be great (actually mandatory) if you could get a set of scales to check out the metric. You'll need to do your wheel alignment done first cause any changes will change the wedge and weight bias in the car. What do you use to set your wheel alignment?

So ReQ, did you mention potentially going to the track on Thursday? That would be cool if you could run over the track scales and get your corner weights. Then give us those, ride heights and springs.

Oh, and do you have a rear sway bar?

ramey

 

[ReQ]

wow, a lot of great information guys, this is very helpful indeed

as long as it does not rain this Thursday, I will be heading back to the track, but unfortunately the scales are only open on race night, and our season start is still a month away, trying to find an alternative right now to the track scales, no one I know seems to have access to any currently, I know getting it scaled is going to be the most important thing for my setup, until then I am just running in the dark, so to speak

I have changed my rear springs and replaced the front springs with taller springs, albeit unknown rates at least it freed the suspension travel up, same goes for the rear except I know the rates as I mentioned, also have my stagger gauge now so I can check that Thursday

pretty sure the car is going to be light, I have lead from another metric car that was running at this track, I weigh more than its driver but he ran an automatic, manuals have to weigh 200lbs more, so I think its probably around 100/150lbs light

I am not sure the actual length of this track, it says 1/4 mile but I have no idea how they measured that, no one runs the inside groove on this track, you can sort of see the rubber marks in that photo exiting the turn, that is the groove we run, inside through the turn and head straight for the wall exiting, hope the car holds and you don't hit it

anyway, getting back to the car, we are not actually allowed to run adjustable shocks but everyone does, I will probably try one adjustable and one standard racing shock for now, I suppose one on the right rear is better than none? probably going to buy a 200# rear spring as well when I buy the fronts, any suggestions or educated guesses on spring lengths for the front? all stock front suspension, tires are 26.9" tall

the front sway-bar has not been changed, and I do not have a rear.. no rules that say we cannot run it as far as I know, since these cars did come with a rear sway-bar I could get a factory mounting setup correct? that should be legal, but I assumed with a solid rear axle a sway-bar would be mostly useless, is this not the case?

sorry if I missed any questions, kind of in and out right now

 

[pontiacgp]

it doesn't cost much to get the springs rated and you really do need to know what you are running. I wouldn't know what length of spring you need to run, we were allowed to use adjusters Your track must have a classified so stick an add in there if there's nothing there you need. And some team must have a set of scales that you can beg to use.
That's a steep penalty for a stick but at least you can add the weight where you want it. I don't like automatics out on the track, they are forever losing oil on the track and when they blow up the track is just about ruined for the rest of the race.
As for a one groove track I didn't mean they run around the track at the bottom but the corners are the important part. If there is an outside lane on the corner that throws in some more variables for the set up.
Do you have any sponsors? It's always nice not to have to run on your money alone and what about a crew. There are some old guys like me who like helping out and working on the cars and some of us have a few ideas that might work. The classifieds are good to look for crews if you need them

 

[ReQ]

The springs in the front of the car are old stock springs from another metric chassis, i believe it was an El Camino, I am probably going to buy some front springs before Thursday, either Tru-Coil, AFCO or Eibach since I can get them from a local speedshop for the same price

I also checked my stagger, same amount of air in all 4 tires just to check the tires themselves, even though they are all the same brand and same size, my left front tire is the largest tire :shock: I suppose this is common for tire manufactures, the difference is just slight but still, may as well get the natural stagger of the tires in the right place

my only sponsor is a local tire store, the car actually came from them, we built the car and they supplied a lot of parts during the build, engine parts, radiator and tires/wheels of course, they also pay to get the car in, so we are pretty happy with that, as for a crew it is mostly just me and my dad doing everything, never really had a need for more than that

I actually have a friend with scales, he runs a super late-model but hes really hard to get in touch with, and lives way too far out to just drop by lol I have considered trying to build a sort of "ghetto mathematician" corner weight scale, using a good bathroom scale and build a leverage setup to reduce the weight on the scale by 3 or 4 times the actual weight, has anyone ever tried this? technically it should work as long as you get the measurements exact

very crude example I made, based on a design I found online more or less
http://i.imgur.com/0cO2P.jpg

in this example, if the measurements are set so the scales read -3x the wheels weight, the scales would read 300lbs, which is 900lbs, with enough math and good scales you should be able to get more or less the same effect as good track scales, albeit with a hell of a lot more work and time

 

[pontiacgp]

as long as the spring comes rated then I would get the Afco or the Eibach. Have fun if you go testing but to be honest until you get the springs in the car, alignment done and set up on the scales you don't really know what you have so you can't make any calculated adjustments. I envy you being out on the track tomorrow as I chug around town in my jeep in the snow...

 

[ReQ]

Got some springs for the front today, a 700 750 and 800 front spring, they threw the 800 in free, used and a little dirty but still good and the price was right, wanted heavier for the right front, but that was all they had in stock for this car(why he threw in the freebie), couldn't really wait for them to order more so I took what I could get, maybe buy another if the 800 is not enough later on down the road

so the car as all new springs, got the ride height up and moving freely, not allowed to adjust anything on the front of the car except for -3 camber on the right front, everything else have to be factory which it all is, i have 2" of stagger on the rear as well, I think the stagger will help a lot with the welded rear, never actually thought about using stagger to fix the spinning caused by welding it locked, seems so simple though lol

going to do my best to get the corners of the car weighed tomorrow, by any means necessary, I doubt I will be able to report my findings before I head to the track unfortunately, but if it is possible could anyone give me an idea of what I am looking for exactly? percentage wise I mean


currently setup:
750# LF / 800# RF
150# LR / 175# RR

this is a good starting point I suppose, at least I know what I am working with now

also, I checked the front shocks and they are both SS100 Pro street stock shocks, probably going to get a non-adjustable left rear, with an adjustable right rear, that way if I get busted for running it (doubtful) I am only out the price of one

 

[UMI Sales]

Got some springs for the front today, a 700 750 and 800 front spring, they threw the 800 in free, used and a little dirty but still good and the price was right, wanted heavier for the right front, but that was all they had in stock for this car(why he threw in the freebie), couldn't really wait for them to order more so I took what I could get, maybe buy another if the 800 is not enough later on down the road

so the car as all new springs, got the ride height up and moving freely, not allowed to adjust anything on the front of the car except for -3 camber on the right front, everything else have to be factory which it all is, i have 2" of stagger on the rear as well, I think the stagger will help a lot with the welded rear, never actually thought about using stagger to fix the spinning caused by welding it locked, seems so simple though lol

going to do my best to get the corners of the car weighed tomorrow, by any means necessary, I doubt I will be able to report my findings before I head to the track unfortunately, but if it is possible could anyone give me an idea of what I am looking for exactly? percentage wise I mean

Now we're talkin'! That's great you know the spring rates. Get that sway bar size written down along with the tires sizes and diameters. Keep a really good set of notes.

Do you have a left side rule? Get that as high as possible. Rear as high as possible. 52% cross.

I'd skip the adjustable RR shock until you try the car. Standard shocks work best until you get the chassis working. A trick shock or two can give you that last tenth.

I think pontiacgp mentioned previously to make sure your tires don't have much tread. Tread causes squirm.

Can't wait to hear a report.

Ramey

currently setup:
750# LF / 800# RF
150# LR / 175# RR

this is a good starting point I suppose, at least I know what I am working with now

also, I checked the front shocks and they are both SS100 Pro street stock shocks, probably going to get a non-adjustable left rear, with an adjustable right rear, that way if I get busted for running it (doubtful) I am only out the price of one