POLL : Are spacers safe?

[jrm81bu]

Well, I first bought Weld Alumastars for my car and those were the rims I wanted but the front 4" rims have the bolts that hold the rim together mounted reverse with the heads on the inside of the rim and they would not clear my calipers.
Dilemma: Run spacers to clear the calipers or find a rim that does. I now have Convo Pros so the choice I made was for peace of mind.
I also beat the crap out of my car and hit fast speeds quickly and I just didn't feel I could have something on my car that was even the slightest bit questionable and can't 100% trust.
As I stated earlier they are probably safe at minimal thickness and proper thread engagement.
I just decided I'm not going to be the guy that proves spacers are not safe.

And that is your choice. The point was that sometimes there are certain things that you just have to "make" work. If your really set on something i'm sure you'd do whatever it takes to make it work.

I chose the rear that would give me the width I wanted and the look I wanted with a 4.5" backspace. I arranged it so it's a common backspace so finding wheels will not be an issue. Anubis is using a 1/4" spacer which I think is what some F bodies used so I don't see any issue with that. He needs the spacer to clear something with his rear disk brakes and I believe the wheel center will still be supported by the axle. The OEM wheels he is using do not come in any other backspacing as far as I know.

That being said if thick spacers were safe then why would GM spend their money on making wheels for the GTA with different backspacing front to back. It would have been much cheaper just to throw on some shims.

But they did both, you just stated that. Yes I know you said "thick" but still. They didn't because they have the means to make whatever they want(and still choose to use small spacers). I don't make rims so I have to buy what is available. There are some things that I want and won't do without because there is some modification that needs to take place. If that was the case my car would be a lot different. I still don't believe I compromised safety at all.

 

[pontiacgp]

With a 1/4 in spacer the wheel still sits on the axle. Any spacer that defeats the hub centric requirement is not safe.

here's what a Ford engineer said...

" The hub-centric wheel was designed to increase the tolerances in the wheel-to-hub fit. With lug-centric, you have 8 (in the case of the Super Duty) holes to locate and machine precisely--and because Ford was having hundreds-of-thousands of these 8-lug wheels made--that's a lot of machined holes to get right! With a hub-centric, only the hub hole has to be accurately machined. On a hub-centric wheel the 8 lug holes don't have to be as accurate, and thus there is a cost savings. I believe this also helps make the tire and wheel spin true and improves wheel balance. That being said, I'm not too sure that it makes that much difference as no other manufacture (to my knowledge) does the same, maybe a European company?

So it might have been cheaper to manufacture hub-centric wheels, than it is to manufacture lug-centric wheels, because you only have to control one
tolerance (the hub bore) vs. 8 (or how ever many wheel lugs you have).

Some aftermarket wheels on hub-centric Super Duty trucks may end up
with a vibration that feels like a wheel vibration, and that is likely
from the wheel improperly-machined, or because the owner has retrofitted the truck with lug-centric wheels being centered with the lug nuts. Usually the supplier
machines the hub reasonably well and it isn't that noticeable."

When I asked him about the load-capacity increase by going to hub-centric wheels, he replied:

"You do know that bolts are not designed for load carrying in shear, they provide clamping. The surface (contact) area between the wheel and the hub carries the load. I'm sure you will then say there is a lip that the hub rests on a hub-centric wheel, vs. the lug-centric only relying on the clamping load.

 

[vonclod]

i had 1/4" spacers on the rear..for reasons unknown i lost a wheel going down the hwy 3 monthes after they were mounted..i checked the nuts a few days after they were mounted..totally wrecked the ds qp and looking at a few grand in labour to fix now that i have found a qp ..maybee longer studs next time..i dunno what happened but thats my story, i will from now and forever on check the lugnuts weekly

 

[jrm81bu]

With a 1/4 in spacer the wheel still sits on the axle. Any spacer that defeats the hub centric requirement is not safe.

I'd still have to say that's your opinion. The majority of aftermarket wheels are not hub centric. If they weren't safe there would be no DOT approvals. Racing wheels are not hub centric and they still allow them at the track. Ever since I've got my license, 90% of the wheels on all my cars were not hub centric. Besides the question was about spacers. There are spacers out there that are still hub centric, would you deem them safe?

 

[pontiacgp]

It's not just my opinion, it's what the engineer from Ford had to say. With aftermarket wheels they sell hubcentric rings

 

[jrm81bu]

It's not just my opinion, it's what the engineer from Ford had to say. With aftermarket wheels they sell hubcentric rings

I didn't see anywhere, where he said it wasn't safe. Some use rings, some don't. Again a lot of racing rims use a shanked lug, that would also show they are not intending them to be used as hub centric.
Obviously we won't agree on this, but of all the sh*t i've broke, i've never given a second thought that my cars use lug centric wheels. That's also never created a problem for me, and I damn sure know its not because i'm a lucky person lol.

 

[pontiacgp]

It's not just my opinion, it's what the engineer from Ford had to say. With aftermarket wheels they sell hubcentric rings

I didn't see anywhere, where he said it wasn't safe. Some use rings, some don't. Again a lot of racing rims use a shanked lug, that would also show they are not intending them to be used as hub centric.
Obviously we won't agree on this, but of all the sh*t i've broke, i've never given a second thought that my cars use lug centric wheels. That's also never created a problem for me, and I damn sure know its not because i'm a lucky person lol.

with the hubcentric wheels if you don't use the hub then the wheel might give you a vibration. You have the cure for that condition, you burn off the tires till the vibration disappears...

but the engineer did imply it was a safety issue

"You do know that bolts are not designed for load carrying in shear, they provide clamping. The surface (contact) area between the wheel and the hub carries the load. I'm sure you will then say there is a lip that the hub rests on a hub-centric wheel, vs. the lug-centric only relying on the clamping load."

 

[jrm81bu]

It's not just my opinion, it's what the engineer from Ford had to say. With aftermarket wheels they sell hubcentric rings

I didn't see anywhere, where he said it wasn't safe. Some use rings, some don't. Again a lot of racing rims use a shanked lug, that would also show they are not intending them to be used as hub centric.
Obviously we won't agree on this, but of all the sh*t i've broke, i've never given a second thought that my cars use lug centric wheels. That's also never created a problem for me, and I damn sure know its not because i'm a lucky person lol.

with the hubcentric wheels if you don't use the hub then the wheel might give you a vibration. You have the cure for that condition, you burn off the tires till the vibration disappears...

but the engineer did imply it was a safety issue

"You do know that bolts are not designed for load carrying in shear, they provide clamping. The surface (contact) area between the wheel and the hub carries the load. I'm sure you will then say there is a lip that the hub rests on a hub-centric wheel, vs. the lug-centric only relying on the clamping load."

But he cant' say that it isn't safe and that it will fail because of that. Just that that wasn't the original design. There is still nothing to actually show it isn't safe. I have done and will continue to do a lot more unsafe things with my vehicle than swap wheels.

 

[pontiacgp]

My rum bottle is empty....you win... 😀

 

[jrm81bu]

My rum bottle is empty....you win... 😀

You have no idea how funny that really is!