Suspension upgrade questions

[tommytpk]

I've done a lot of searching, and found a lot of varying opinions.

I just got my 79 Cutlass (260), and I want to upgrade the suspension first. I'm not interested in lowering the car, but if the best setup lowers it an inch or two, that's fine. Here is my simple plan:

Front - quick ratio steering box - I have a Saginaw 605 (a whole other question thread), 1 1/4" sway bar with poly end links, new coils, and freshen up control arm bushings/ball joints, shocks

Rear - class II hitch, coils, add 7/8" sway bar, and poly end links, shocks

This car is simply going to be a nice cruiser that handles better than it did, stock. I may put another engine in down, the road, but not considering that now.

Three main questions:

What coils and shocks would everyone recommend for this project? I don't mind paying for something that is clearly superior, and I'm doing the back first, then the front, so I'm saving up for the project over time.

Is there anyone that sells a 600 box with the quick-ratio steering? I'd rather re-use the SAE lines, hoses, mount, and pitman arm.

Thanks!

Tom

 

[ssn696]

No performance 605 boxes. The 605 box works until it doesn't and the pitman arm has a smaller splined hole than the Saginaw 800 box - you'll need to locate a donor 800 box or buy an aftermarket arm - look for one form a Monte Carlo SS with 'quick' or 'performance' ratio. The good news There might have been close ratio 81 and earlier boxes in Camaros and Firebirds (WS6?) that you might locate. Hoses are pretty cheap.

 

[oldsmobile joe]

if its a daily driver, some like the moog cargo coils others like lowering springs. depends on your usage.

shocks are like springs, a personal preference.
I have kyb gas adjust on my 79 Calais with 85 442 springs, 1-1/4 front bar, stock rear bar and 275/40/17 tires and love it.
but on my 78 salon, has more pedestrian Gabriel shocks, stock springs, 1-1/4 front bar, stock rear bar and 245/50/16 tires. and I love this ride also.
tire selection will affect ride quality also. low profile tires may ride harder than a stock size tires. the tires side wall height and flex helps determine this. a tire with a speed rating of v will generally ride harder than a tire with no speed rating.

for steering gears, try finding a g body with the handling package, f41, fe2, etc, easiest found on monte ss, 442, t-type gn, mid-nineties impala ss, caprice 9c1 police cars. mid-eighties f-body cars have them, particularly the z28, iroc, formula, and trans am, but be aware if car was equipped with 16in rims, the steering stops inside the gear are different and will cause you to have a slightly larger turning radius, or not turn as sharp. I have this on my 79 Calais to keep the 275/40/17 tires from rubbing the inner fenders. I've also read that late nineties jeep grand Cherokees use the same monte ss style gear, iirc. chances of you finding a jeep in the u pick yard are far greater and cheaper then finding one of these others. check google for more info. all these gears use an o-ring style hose fitting. if your hoses are of questionable quality, you can usually buy new ones for a newer g body of the same type of eng. or if using flare fitting you can buy adapters from Speedway in Nebraska among others.

if you want a direct bolt in gear, find one from late seventies trans am with ws6 handling package but these are almost as hard to find as hens teeth.

pitman arms are g body specific.

 

[tommytpk]

Thanks for the input.
Ordered the Moog variable rate springs for the back, heavy duty (+A/C) for the front, and kyb shocks all around. Found a local guy selling the stock rear sway bar and a 1-1/4" front. He also has a Monte SS steering box with pitman arm on it. Is that pitman arm the same as mine? Will I need to order Monte SS PS hoses, and adapters to fit my pump? Also, will the steering U joint be the same?

Thanks again--
Tom

 

[oldsmobile joe]

that's good news.
pitman arm and steering joints will be the same. if your hoses are good, I would use adapters like these, or google gm o-ring to inverted flare p/s adapters. you will find several choices and companies to get them from.

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/O-Ring-to-Inverted-Flare-Power-Steering-Adapter,24682.html

the following info was taken from this article concerning the use of inverted flare fitting hoses on a metric box
.http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/chassis-suspension/ccrp-0901-gm-steering-box-upgrade/
"In the '80 model year, GM also changed from its original 45-degree inverted flare 5/8x18 UF and 11/16x18 UNS female fitting sizes to a metric O-ring (often called Saginaw fittings) measuring 16x1.5 mm and 18x1.5 mm. Coincidentally, the thread pitch of these metric fittings is almost identical to the original fittings, which led Lee to develop aluminum press-in inserts that convert the newer O-ring-style sealing back to inverted flare fittings. Because the thread pitch for both fittings is almost identical, these inserts allow you to use your original inverted flare hoses and fittings."

if you replace the hoses, you will need the fitting on the back of the pump switched over also. I apologize for not mentioning this before, I forgot. given the time of day I was writing and the fact I did mine 12 years ago. if you can get the entire pump and bracket from an olds, great, but you don't need the entire pump, just the fitting on back. that's what I did with new hoses. here is one article concerning this swap,

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/chassis-suspension/ccrp-1212-power-steering-fix-junkyard-builder/

there is more info out with pics if you search. maybe other members will join in the discussion.

I hope you enjoy your ride.

 

[tommytpk]

that's good news.
pitman arm and steering joints will be the same. if your hoses are good, I would use adapters like these, or google gm o-ring to inverted flare p/s adapters. you will find several choices and companies to get them from.

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/O-Ring-to-Inverted-Flare-Power-Steering-Adapter,24682.html

the following info was taken from this article concerning the use of inverted flare fitting hoses on a metric box
.http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/chassis-suspension/ccrp-0901-gm-steering-box-upgrade/
"In the '80 model year, GM also changed from its original 45-degree inverted flare 5/8x18 UF and 11/16x18 UNS female fitting sizes to a metric O-ring (often called Saginaw fittings) measuring 16x1.5 mm and 18x1.5 mm. Coincidentally, the thread pitch of these metric fittings is almost identical to the original fittings, which led Lee to develop aluminum press-in inserts that convert the newer O-ring-style sealing back to inverted flare fittings. Because the thread pitch for both fittings is almost identical, these inserts allow you to use your original inverted flare hoses and fittings."

if you replace the hoses, you will need the fitting on the back of the pump switched over also. I apologize for not mentioning this before, I forgot. given the time of day I was writing and the fact I did mine 12 years ago. if you can get the entire pump and bracket from an olds, great, but you don't need the entire pump, just the fitting on back. that's what I did with new hoses. here is one article concerning this swap,

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/chassis-suspension/ccrp-1212-power-steering-fix-junkyard-builder/

there is more info out with pics if you search. maybe other members will join in the discussion.

I hope you enjoy your ride.

Thanks, Joe. I see others have used the Lee Manufacturing adapters that thread onto the metric steering gear, to allow the oem flared fittings to connect.

 

[el corvino]

The local parts store sells SS quick ratio steering boxes. Bought one just recently.

You can upgrade as much as your wallet will allow... Here are a few from my El Camino...

The QA1 adjustable coilovers really helped with the squat and go process. The 2" drop spindles will lower the front end 2" but not change the geometry of your vehicle.

Here are two links of everything I did at the time.

Front end: http://www.elcaminocentral.com/showthread.php?t=38572

Rear end: http://www.elcaminocentral.com/showthread.php?t=24403

 

[tommytpk]

Just revisiting. I ended up cleaning up the interior as the first order of business.

Searching for an 8.5" rear and driveshaft, and then I'm doing the rear. I've read that on street cars, the boxed rear control arms can cause binding and oversteer. My stock rear control arms are almost 40 years old. Does anyone recommend re-using them with new poly bushings, or should I put some new rubber bushings back in? I guess the question is, besides the sway bar, better springs, and shocks, what else can I do to the rear suspension to improve handling? I would love to put a 403 or 455 in one day, but even then it won't be a race car.

Thanks
Tom

 

[Qdub24]

Don't box the upper trailing arms, but boxing the lowers is fine. The best rear trailing arms on the market right now in my opinion:

http://umiperformance.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8_60_74&products_id=782

 

[tommytpk]

OK, just to ask again, having read this topic: https://gbodyforum.com/threads/why-you-dont-box-rear-upper-control-arms.50754/

I just got my hands on a NOS 7.5 rear with posi, so I'm going to swap that in, along with the Moog springs, KYB shocks, and a rear sway bar.

Does installing aftermarket/tubular control arms add anything to driving on the street, in addition to the other changes?

Thanks!
Tom