Tell me a little about my engine

[HurstOlds]

Hi guys,

I wanted to get a little info or thoughts about my Cutlass engine. I bought the car with this already in it. I also do not know anything about engines in general so I'm hoping to get some info from you.

I've done a little research to try and look up specs and stuff based on the list I was given with the car.

I was basically looking for a decent Cutlass that I can drive, that hopefully doesn't need much work done to it.

Here's the list of engine specs:

Eng. 75 455 blk Fb 030 over (4.154")
66 425 forged crank
66 425 forged robs resized
trw-425 pistons, PN 2214L 10.25:1
66 "B" heads shallow pocket
Engle valve springs PN 361
Engle cam - PM 107* jm20-22H
.842 hyd lifters
455 rods resized (2) 70 / (6) 75

11/1/94 - purchased 66 Olds toro w/ 425
400 hp.
500 torq.

The above is exactly what is listed on my sheet that I was given to me when I bought the car.

My first question is, do you think this would really have anywhere near 400 hp/500 torq?

This car doesn't feel that fast to me. I raced a buddy that has a 97 SLP SS Camaro and got walked. I also raced my buddy that has an 96 GTO exhaust only and got walked even more, wasn't even close.

Looking over all kinds of G Body 455 Olds builds around the net, it looks like my car should be running at least a 13 second quarter mile if the engine does have 400 hp.

I was thinking that maybe the engine was built for NOS or something like that. I showed my buddy that is a mechanic and has a NOS Corvette and he checked out the cam specs. He said that it would be blowing most of the NOS out the exhaust with the cam that I have, so it's most likely not a NOS engine.

This engine runs great, has a nice little lopey idle to it with the cam. Doesn't leak any oil, all I have is a small antifreeze leak that I need to track down. My only complaint is that if I'm going be getting big block gas mileage, I would like some big block power, if you know what I mean.

So what can you tell me about this build? Does this combo make sense?

From research I've done, I read that 425 "B" heads flow much like 455 "c" heads. I understand that C heads are the heads most people want for their BBO? Also, the list above is exactly what's written. I couldn't find anything about pistons with a part number 2214L. But doing some research, I think they might be part number L2214F30??? The F means forged, the 30 means it's for a 30 over engine? Is this correct, or not?

That's one reason I thought the engine might be set up for NOS or something.....since it has a forged crank, forged rods, and forged pistons. But I don't know anything about racing or engines, so what do you think?

I also don't understand why he would like "66 425 rods resized" along with "455 rods resized (2) 70 / (6) 75"

I also found out that a 425 engine is considered a square or something? Bore = stroke I think it was? This is not the case for a normal 455? Can someone explain this to me in a way I can understand. Also, can someone explain to me what the deal is with my setup? In other words, what kind of compression do you think it would have? What kind of HP do you think I would realistically get from this setup?

I wouldn't mind getting a dyno run so I can tell exactly what it's putting out, but they're so damn expensive. I figured I could run a couple buddies cars and go off of their specs to get a better idea

I'm running a ~3.56 rear end with a TH400 trans, stock stall I believe. I have no clue how to tell what kind of stall is in it, and there's nothing listed on the sheet I got. I believe it's an 850 Rochester carb with a 1 inch riser thing on it. Intake appears to be stock (I don't know if it's an intake off a 425 or 455, or if they're even the same)

Also, can you please tell me what the red line should be for engine, and what oil do you use for your BBO? Synthetic?

Please help a newbie out, thank you

 

[dogsht]

You may get some help here but you might also post Olds engine help questions at www.oldspower.com and www.realoldspower.com.

 

[joe_padavano]

Hi guys,

I wanted to get a little info or thoughts about my Cutlass engine. I bought the car with this already in it. I also do not know anything about engines in general so I'm hoping to get some info from you.

I've done a little research to try and look up specs and stuff based on the list I was given with the car.

I was basically looking for a decent Cutlass that I can drive, that hopefully doesn't need much work done to it.

Here's the list of engine specs:

Eng. 75 455 blk Fb 030 over (4.154")
66 425 forged crank
66 425 forged robs resized
trw-425 pistons, PN 2214L 10.25:1
66 "B" heads shallow pocket
Engle valve springs PN 361
Engle cam - PM 107* jm20-22H
.842 hyd lifters
455 rods resized (2) 70 / (6) 75

11/1/94 - purchased 66 Olds toro w/ 425
400 hp.
500 torq.

The above is exactly what is listed on my sheet that I was given to me when I bought the car.

My first question is, do you think this would really have anywhere near 400 hp/500 torq?

This car doesn't feel that fast to me. I raced a buddy that has a 97 SLP SS Camaro and got walked. I also raced my buddy that has an 96 GTO exhaust only and got walked even more, wasn't even close.

Looking over all kinds of G Body 455 Olds builds around the net, it looks like my car should be running at least a 13 second quarter mile if the engine does have 400 hp.

I was thinking that maybe the engine was built for NOS or something like that. I showed my buddy that is a mechanic and has a NOS Corvette and he checked out the cam specs. He said that it would be blowing most of the NOS out the exhaust with the cam that I have, so it's most likely not a NOS engine.

This engine runs great, has a nice little lopey idle to it with the cam. Doesn't leak any oil, all I have is a small antifreeze leak that I need to track down. My only complaint is that if I'm going be getting big block gas mileage, I would like some big block power, if you know what I mean.

So what can you tell me about this build? Does this combo make sense?

From research I've done, I read that 425 "B" heads flow much like 455 "c" heads. I understand that C heads are the heads most people want for their BBO? Also, the list above is exactly what's written. I couldn't find anything about pistons with a part number 2214L. But doing some research, I think they might be part number L2214F30??? The F means forged, the 30 means it's for a 30 over engine? Is this correct, or not?

That's one reason I thought the engine might be set up for NOS or something.....since it has a forged crank, forged rods, and forged pistons. But I don't know anything about racing or engines, so what do you think?

I also don't understand why he would like "66 425 rods resized" along with "455 rods resized (2) 70 / (6) 75"

I also found out that a 425 engine is considered a square or something? Bore = stroke I think it was? This is not the case for a normal 455? Can someone explain this to me in a way I can understand. Also, can someone explain to me what the deal is with my setup? In other words, what kind of compression do you think it would have? What kind of HP do you think I would realistically get from this setup?

I wouldn't mind getting a dyno run so I can tell exactly what it's putting out, but they're so damn expensive. I figured I could run a couple buddies cars and go off of their specs to get a better idea

I'm running a ~3.56 rear end with a TH400 trans, stock stall I believe. I have no clue how to tell what kind of stall is in it, and there's nothing listed on the sheet I got. I believe it's an 850 Rochester carb with a 1 inch riser thing on it. Intake appears to be stock (I don't know if it's an intake off a 425 or 455, or if they're even the same)

Also, can you please tell me what the red line should be for engine, and what oil do you use for your BBO? Synthetic?

Please help a newbie out, thank you

Lots of questions.. 🙂

OK, first, it appears that someone has put a 425 rotating assembly inside a 455 block. That's not a bad combo, as you get the shorter stroke and forged crank of the 425 with the more common 39 deg lifter bank angle of the 455. The conflicting info on the rods must be a typo. You MUST use the 425 rods with the 425 crank and pistons. The 455 rods are 0.300" shorter and will not work in that combo.

There's a lot of incorrect data on the web about Olds heads. Let's just say that except for the J-code smog heads used in 1973-76, they all flow about the same in stock form.

As for undersquare and oversquare, the 425 used a 4.125" bore and a 3.980" stroke. Since the bore is larger than the stroke, this is called an oversquare motor ("square" would be a motor where bore = stroke exactly). The 455 uses the same 4.125" bore but a 4.250" stroke, so it's undersquare. If the motors are built right, this is not terribly important. Undersquare motors typically rev higher because the stroke is shorter, but there are lots of large displacement BBC motors that are very undersquare.

The 425 and 455 intakes are interchangeable.

I've given up estimating HP and torque. These engines put out nearly 400 HP and 500 ft-lbs stock.

 

[85 Cutlass Brougham]

I too would say that it would be difficult NOT to make 400 hp out of a 455. However, never let it be said that GM engineers of the 1970's were incapable of doing difficult things in their valiant efforts to emasculate large engines. That being said, the 10.25 compression and a Quadrajet tells me that it SHOULD run the number depending on the actual cam specs. Since you did not list them, it is difficult to say for sure. If the cam is good and it still has the stock Iron intake, I would use a high rise dual plane aluminum intake on it and shed about 50 lbs off the nose. It should also pick up power too if it is a good one like the Performer RPM. Other than that, it all comes down to tuning. Even the best engine will be a dog with bad tuning or bad gears. As for a redline, I think it would be safe to say 6,000 RPM, maybe a little higher depending.

As for a stall speed, that is dictated by a number of variables including: vehicle weight, the engine's torque curve and the gearing. Think of the converter as a rubber band. If you put a rubber band around one end of a 1lb weight and try to drag it, it will stretch to a certain degree before it starts pulling the weight. If you increase the weight, it will stretch longer and if you decrease the weight it will stretch less. If you increase the force you pull with it will also have an effect on the initial stretch of the rubber band as well. Now think of the stretch before movement as the stall speed of the rubber band or torque converter. As you can see, stall speed is a dependent variable in the equation that also includes the forces on either end of the converter. Now, stall speed is so named because of how it is roughly determines on the engine's end. This would be the old method of holding the brakes (assuming they are strong enough) and holding th gas down until the engine stalls. The RPM of the stall is the torque converter's stall speed with respect to engine RPM, but it fails to take into account the effects of weight and gearing, so it is not a true measure of how it will interact with all the variables in play when considering the whole vehicle dynamics equation. I hope that simplifies it.

 

[DrRansom442]

You are worried about power and speed ... what is this in? (Cutlass is pretty vague) When was the engine built? How many miles are on it now? Only date I see listed says something about a Toronado bought in 94 ... perhaps the car needs a refresh? Have you had the cylinders compression tested?? Can't make power without compression. Look at the stock mid 70s 455s for reference. Compression was horrible so was output.

 

[marcar1993]

As joe said, the motor's made near 400hp/500 ft lbs new so it isn't hard to believe it's making that now. However a BIG variable as to why you got "walked on" by those cars is rear end gearing. I'm geussing you have a g-body, in which case you could have anything from 2.14's(not a typo 2.14) all the way up to 3.73's. I'm geussing your somewhere in the 2.14-2.56 gear range though; whereas those cars you raced have at least 3.73's. Your races where probably from a stop too. With 2.xx gears from 40-60 mph is where your power starts coming in, so from a 40 mph roll you'd probably keep up a bit better.
Do you know what rear end is in your car? If not, find out. It could be a 7.5" or an 8.5"(stronger) ring gear 10 bolt housing. Then find out the gears themselves. There is no more sure way to do this than pull the cover and either count the teeth or find the stamping with the ratio on it.
Example 44:16
You divide the first # into the second to get 2.75:1.

Hope this helps a little.

 

[DrRansom442]

I assume it's this car

http://x3d.xanga.com/984f52401953523772 ... 918654.jpg

 

[DrRansom442]

I'm running a ~3.56 rear end with a TH400 trans, stock stall I believe.


Sounds like something aint quite adding up. Getting walked by a mid-14 car just doesn't seem right

 

[pontiacgp]

I don't understand why a dyno test hasn't been done...the op says they're to expensive but he should be able to get one for somewhere between 60 and 100 depending on the hourly rate.....it takes at tops one hour to get a couple of dyno runs...

 

[DrRansom442]

I don't understand why a dyno test hasn't been done...the op says they're to expensive but he should be able to get one for somewhere between 60 and 100 depending on the hourly rate.....it takes at tops one hour to get a couple of dyno runs...

I've know far more people that have never run a dyno than those who have. Perhaps it's just me but I'd start small and work my way up. Make sure it's tuned, make sure it has compression. How's the trans? et cetera. Starting off with dyno pulls is probably a good way to blow it up. It's sure a nice looking car .... I really hope I'm wrong but something doesn't quite seem to add up .... I hope that's not why it was sold.