Penalizing the user for the errors of the corporation; that was the basis of my objection earlier in the thread. Why should I have to lift a finger to repair anything because some company failed, if I made my payments on time. Don't say 'the environment'. My empathy lies solely with the victimized consumer. CAFE is and was always stupid. 54mpg average = me and you taking a bike, a moped or a bus to work. That's 'progress' to these hypocrites.
Volkswagen/Audi Emission Scam
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why should you penalize the people who breath the air these diesels are putting out. What the owners of the cars need to do is start a class action suit to get rid of the cars and to get an appropriate amount back. The shareholders of the companies should also not suffer
This is all about programming to shut off the emission system that is on the engine. Apparently the German gov was aware of this. We should put huge tariffs on Volkswagen and Audi cars
Their banks will not bail them out like ours did for GM. I applaud VW for standing up to corrupt government and encourage whoever is able to refuse to comply with these unreasonable demands that we satisfy man-made arguments over the environment while corporations feel free to continue spewing inordinate amounts of pollution untaxed. If you and people who think like you succeed, those higher ups in the VW will retire with a million dollars to a mansion and apply for other corporate jobs from the comfort of their climate controlled homes while living wage workers are thrown into the streets with cardboard signs. That's real 'progress', charging the people to cover other people's shortcomings. I guess those people should all park their Volkswagens and take the bus to work while they wait 4+ years for that lawsuit to settle. Oh, I suppose you were imagining them all as people with 15 cars in a row like you. Some of those people don't have a 'second car' let alone multiple cars to sub in while they wait for that. Why should they have to drive to court or a lawyer's office because someone else failed 'the environment'. Forgive me, I know we aren't supposed to be talking politics on here anymore but that just doesn't make any sense to me.
I would say the way the thread was worded / titled from the beginning opened it up to becoming what it is now. I am disappointed that anyone who supports organized motorsports would take the political standpoint you have chosen on this particular issue, let alone on a forum dedicated to modifying obsolete platforms for the purpose of maintaining and repairing these old cars as a sort of enthusiast / hobby etc. I'm a moderate, and I believe that somewhere between 54mpg CAFE and utter exploitation of the environment is some type of middle ground. I disagree that we should price VW out of the North American market by making it impossible for them to compete, and then act surprised when they have to fire thousands of workers who lack responsibility in the perpetration of this act of defiance against the law. I enjoy arguing with people and think it's ridiculous that you're proposing we set a precedent in which any thread wherein someone happens to disagree with you gets closed down. It's just a friendly argument anyway; at the end of the day who are we? I too am just a man.
I believe the "how" is clever but that doesn't make it right.
I think there are more people responsible than just the CEO and other executives; executives wouldn't be writing the software, placing it under configuration control, testing it, fixing & retesting the code, and then releasing it for use in the cars -- probably an executive somewhere had to give final approval for the release, but there probably are a number of spots where somebody could've said "are we doing the ethical thing? Didn't VW agree to these standards?"
It seems executives are trying to blame rogue software engineers & claiming no executive had a hand in it, which from my experience with software testing and configuration control is a hard sell as that would mean:
Reading one of these posts, I got the impression Ontario was going to order all affected VW diesels off the road immediately; that doesn't seem to be the case ... yet. From this story, it appears that once the recall in Canada goes into effect -- and it's unknown when that will be as they're still determining what different fixes need to be made for cars in different countries (which goes back to my 'clever' statement -- I get the impression the defeat device worked in all countries and to undo this, there will be different solutions for the cars in different countries) -- at some point owners will have to prove the fix has been made in order to renew the registration as the province wants to enforce owners getting their car back into compliance. I think "the fix" is not just reprogramming the cars to delete the defeat device but to also make the necessary modifications to restore the advertised performance numbers (horsepower, torque, economy, etc).
There's no way to "protect shareholders" during a situation like this as the stock market is supply and demand, all I can say is that I hope you didn't bet all of your money on this one horse ... I'll note stock in the VW group is majority-controlled by two families, take that for what you will
Finally, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. The New York Times took a look at two different models and calculated that in the US you could claim the defeat device is responsible for the deaths of 40 - 106 people ... at one point they worded it as "at its upper range, isn’t far off from that caused by the G.M. defect." (that's 123 so far). Of note is that at the end of the article, a different scientist discusses that 2004 - 2009 NOX emissions dropped by 90% while the affected VW diesels comprise 1% of vehicles in the US -- his point being those cars have not single-handedly rolled-back the gains made in the past 10 years.
I think there are more people responsible than just the CEO and other executives; executives wouldn't be writing the software, placing it under configuration control, testing it, fixing & retesting the code, and then releasing it for use in the cars -- probably an executive somewhere had to give final approval for the release, but there probably are a number of spots where somebody could've said "are we doing the ethical thing? Didn't VW agree to these standards?"
It seems executives are trying to blame rogue software engineers & claiming no executive had a hand in it, which from my experience with software testing and configuration control is a hard sell as that would mean:
- willful ignorance on the part of executives OR
- software test results were falsified and/or were not given proper executive review
Reading one of these posts, I got the impression Ontario was going to order all affected VW diesels off the road immediately; that doesn't seem to be the case ... yet. From this story, it appears that once the recall in Canada goes into effect -- and it's unknown when that will be as they're still determining what different fixes need to be made for cars in different countries (which goes back to my 'clever' statement -- I get the impression the defeat device worked in all countries and to undo this, there will be different solutions for the cars in different countries) -- at some point owners will have to prove the fix has been made in order to renew the registration as the province wants to enforce owners getting their car back into compliance. I think "the fix" is not just reprogramming the cars to delete the defeat device but to also make the necessary modifications to restore the advertised performance numbers (horsepower, torque, economy, etc).
There's no way to "protect shareholders" during a situation like this as the stock market is supply and demand, all I can say is that I hope you didn't bet all of your money on this one horse ... I'll note stock in the VW group is majority-controlled by two families, take that for what you will
Finally, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. The New York Times took a look at two different models and calculated that in the US you could claim the defeat device is responsible for the deaths of 40 - 106 people ... at one point they worded it as "at its upper range, isn’t far off from that caused by the G.M. defect." (that's 123 so far). Of note is that at the end of the article, a different scientist discusses that 2004 - 2009 NOX emissions dropped by 90% while the affected VW diesels comprise 1% of vehicles in the US -- his point being those cars have not single-handedly rolled-back the gains made in the past 10 years.
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