80_cutlass said:
alot of guys like my uncle just use their quick charge system run off of a portable generator and what not. he just charges the battery between every few runs.
VOTE!! Electric Vs. Belt driven fan and water pump
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alot of guys like my uncle just use their quick charge system run off of a portable generator and what not. he just charges the battery between every few runs.
2fit661ca said:
Alternator is a LOT cheaper and doesn't take a lot of HP to turn as long as you aren't drawing big amps and your battery voltage is good. And you don't have to carry it with you to the track.
Anyway, wasn't trying to hi-jack the thread. I stand by my original statements about fan-clutch and water pump.
sb
lot of HP is a relative term. I know some in circle track racing that don't run an alternator and do 50 laps races without it. I don't like to run without once since the HEI loves to be saturated with volts and we run a DUI but for a car heading down the track for a few seconds I wouldn't bother running an alternator either. If the rules allowed it I'd be running a 16 volt system with the HEI
pontiacgp said:
We've hijacked this thread. Oh well, I can run a 10 or 12SI alternator at top amperage with a 3hp "gen set" made from an edger. Is that 3hp worth a drop in voltage on 50 lap race? Don't know. Or the expense (or time) for making up a charging system to carry with you? Again, don't know. As for myself, I am with you and run an alternator.
sb
80_cutlass said:
In certain types of racing every single horsepower counts. They will do anything it takes to get out any amount of weight they don't need.
The thermostatically controlled clutch fan is good but it has been proven that the electrics can & do take less power from your engine. Its why the automakers have switched to electrics in new cars. But we are generally talking 3 to 10 HP on a spike or peak and often no difference at all. Generally it takes a little bit of weight off the nose of your car but not much also generally it provides a little more room but very little. On the flip side it does take a good altenator, ground, and preferably a 40 amp fuse. I don't know about trendy but it probably does make your engine compartment look a little more upgraded or up to date. That said if I had a really big cooling load all the time like a truck used for pulling I would use a good clutch fan. For most of our uses the salvage yard mark VIII or similar is hard to beat.
Another Mark VIII guy here. The only other option I would consider is a factory clutch fan. What I don't like about engine driven fans is the lack of cooling at idle. My temp would always creep up when caught in traffic on a hot summer day, and even worse with the A/C on. This was with an all new cooling system as well and I'd have to rev the engine to get the fan to cool things down. Electric solves that problem.
Belt driven waterpump is the only option for me on a street car.
Belt driven waterpump is the only option for me on a street car.
85_SS said:
In canada? I have never had that problem, even in South Texas....maybe my cars just aren't hot-rodded enough.
sb
80_cutlass said:
I've had bone stock cars get hot in traffic with clutch fans. I don't know exactly why...
And everyone keeps saying that they prefere a belt driven water pump over electric but theere's hardly any arguements as to why...
Another guy down here in san antonio.
My setup is a belt driven water pump with a 160 degree stant thermostat. I know some guys will say that it is too low and to really go with 180 degree stats, but the 160 version has given me perfect operating temps and it works down here in south texas when we are scraping our asses with a spatula to get out of the vinyl seats.
I have tried all these fan setups and my setup is belt driven. The first issue I had with the factory clutch fan was the clutch went out and the fan would not spin with the motor. So I replaced the thermostat clutch with a straight clutch. Well roughly a year ago, after only two years, the straight clutch when out. The straight clutch fan did keep the engine cool with no problems.
At that point I decided "Screw the factory fan". I was forced to go with a flex fan at that point and had an extra S blade electric fan that I knew wasn't going to be enough. So I used both with the electric fan up front as a pusher and the flex fan. Funny thing is the flex fan would pull so much air the electric fan would spin faster off than it would on. It did give the nice "blower" sound that some look for with noisy gear drives and it didn't annoy me. But I have read horror stories on them turning into shrapnel and destroying radiators etc. The flex fan IMO pulled more air and kept the engine far cooler than the factory clutch fans.
So recently I spent a lot of time researching electric fans. Turns out that the Mark VIII electric fan pulls more air than all stock and most aftermarket fans. This fan is almost the size of a 20 inch tv and is massive when compared to other stock fans. There are three wires to hook this fan up, one controls the low setting, one for high, and the ground. I'm going to hook up the fan to a hard switch and will not be relying upon a thermostat to control the fan.
For those of you interested in the Mark VIII fan, you can get the exact same fan out of Ford Thunderbirds. Mine came out of a 93' or 94' Ford Thunderbird and it is the exact same thing as the Mark VIII fan.
I have yet to hook up the Thunderbird fan as I'm repairing other things on the car. For those who decide to go this route, I highly suggest upgrading the charging system with either a CS130 or CS144. Google these alternators and they are excellent upgrades from the stock SI alternators and will be able to supply enough voltage and amps to power the electric fan and many other accessories. The CS130 can be found on most 90's chevies and the CS144 can be found in almost all cadillacs.
As for the electric vs. belt driven water pumps, yes in theory you should get more power from an electric pump, but I highly doubt it will even get you a tenth in the quarter. This is more of preference and cost rather than serious power gains. The electric pump is meant more for drag racing rather than constant street use and your motor will overheat if you try this. I may be wrong, but everytime I've heard someone using an electric water pump on the street, it always resulted in overheating issues.
My setup is a belt driven water pump with a 160 degree stant thermostat. I know some guys will say that it is too low and to really go with 180 degree stats, but the 160 version has given me perfect operating temps and it works down here in south texas when we are scraping our asses with a spatula to get out of the vinyl seats.
I have tried all these fan setups and my setup is belt driven. The first issue I had with the factory clutch fan was the clutch went out and the fan would not spin with the motor. So I replaced the thermostat clutch with a straight clutch. Well roughly a year ago, after only two years, the straight clutch when out. The straight clutch fan did keep the engine cool with no problems.
At that point I decided "Screw the factory fan". I was forced to go with a flex fan at that point and had an extra S blade electric fan that I knew wasn't going to be enough. So I used both with the electric fan up front as a pusher and the flex fan. Funny thing is the flex fan would pull so much air the electric fan would spin faster off than it would on. It did give the nice "blower" sound that some look for with noisy gear drives and it didn't annoy me. But I have read horror stories on them turning into shrapnel and destroying radiators etc. The flex fan IMO pulled more air and kept the engine far cooler than the factory clutch fans.
So recently I spent a lot of time researching electric fans. Turns out that the Mark VIII electric fan pulls more air than all stock and most aftermarket fans. This fan is almost the size of a 20 inch tv and is massive when compared to other stock fans. There are three wires to hook this fan up, one controls the low setting, one for high, and the ground. I'm going to hook up the fan to a hard switch and will not be relying upon a thermostat to control the fan.
For those of you interested in the Mark VIII fan, you can get the exact same fan out of Ford Thunderbirds. Mine came out of a 93' or 94' Ford Thunderbird and it is the exact same thing as the Mark VIII fan.
I have yet to hook up the Thunderbird fan as I'm repairing other things on the car. For those who decide to go this route, I highly suggest upgrading the charging system with either a CS130 or CS144. Google these alternators and they are excellent upgrades from the stock SI alternators and will be able to supply enough voltage and amps to power the electric fan and many other accessories. The CS130 can be found on most 90's chevies and the CS144 can be found in almost all cadillacs.
As for the electric vs. belt driven water pumps, yes in theory you should get more power from an electric pump, but I highly doubt it will even get you a tenth in the quarter. This is more of preference and cost rather than serious power gains. The electric pump is meant more for drag racing rather than constant street use and your motor will overheat if you try this. I may be wrong, but everytime I've heard someone using an electric water pump on the street, it always resulted in overheating issues.
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