What is with all the old gen bashing?

[tobyp]

Im a BIG LS guy! They make big power STOCK in comparison to the conventional small block stuff, and they respond to modification so well. Im not saying a conventional SBC can not be made to run, as we all know that they can!!

And also, have any of you guys who rag on the "computer tuning" ever attempted to tune an EFI car? If not, you may want to look into it, as its not as easy as "plugging in a computer and bamm!" Not the case at all.

Anyhow, I can appreciate both, but Ill stick with the LS power.

yes, the Turbo Regal is one of the hardest to tune. You must study and know how everything works before you do anything. Like one guy was saying on here that changes to the size diameter of a MAF inlet pipe before the sensor will change everything drastically to the engine causing all kinds of drivability issues.

 

[jacobdavis1979]

Guys il be honest i would love to have an ls motor in my bu. But i agree with what most of you are saying. LS is a great motor but so is SBC. And there is alot of blind hate that is alittle annoying when they say old motors are junk get crap gas millage i dissagree.
The motor in my malibu makes around 400hp with just a 600cfm 4 barrel no efi or anything and i still get between 14 mpg to on somedays yes believe me or not if you want too 20 mpg out of a built 350 yes its possible. Dont leak any fluids. I actully trust it to get me to work more than i do the rest of my 10 cars that are all fuel injected. Dont get me wrong i love new tech too. But what bothers me is blind hate both have there pros and cons and theres no need to bash on either of them

 

[Gbarrie]

Fella's I'll be honest and wont discriminate I'LL TAKE EITHER ONE. I'am at the age now
speed/power don't mean anything to me, But I see what yall are saying, most of the time I just ignor it :lol:
Gbarrie.

 

[pontiacgp]

The bottom of the engines have not really changed much. It's the heads that dictate on the most part the power and fuel economy of engines. Before the gas crunch the heads had huge valves and had lots of power but poor fuel economy, The smog heads killed the power in the engines and now we get a nice mix on power and fuel economy depending on the heads you choose. I get lots more power and better fuel economy with the vortec heads and then added a bit with the roller cam. It takes more money to build an older engine and lots more money if you want to match the current performance engines. You can go out and buy a new SBC crate engine from GM for less money than it would cost you to build an identical engine. These days where money to play with is in short supply in many homes there isn't the funds to build what you want. It depends on what side of the fence your on, what some consider bashing others consider it common sense.

 

[Brother Al]

Along with the old gen bashing why do we get so much "consumer Reports" bashing?.Anyone know what goes into their research before publication?. I don't know either but I'll bet its more than few hundred miles in the hands of gearheads for their car reports.Of course (insert your unfavored car brand here) made plenty of lemons, no doubt plenty of Edsel buyers were very happy with their faultlessly running cars back in the day, but plenty weren't. Do youn want the team you support to win their league title?. Of course, but do you want it to win by getting better or rival teams getting worse?. North America will have to get used to the fundamental shift in the auto industry, especially with the rising eminence of China and India, if you aren't careful America will rapidly become an irrelevant backwater.Roger

Roger, I have subscribed to them for years... I have read their reviews for years... There is an unfair bias... believe it or not.
Their testing facility is not very far from me... in fact it was once Connecticut's last dragstrip until they bought it out of bankruptcy. They gather their own data on vehicles and they also obtain a lot of their data comes from "readers who volunteer" and provide them with the information. One of their auto gurus is on the local radio station once a week, talking about their latest auto reviews... Then they open up the lines for people call in with questions or ask for new & used vehicle recommendations... his reply usually starts with a Toyota, followed up with a Honda, then Nissan... or the luxury rebrands Lexus, Acura, & Infinity... Even when the all-new Impala received high marks across the board, he poo-poo'd it with off hand remarks about GM's longterm reliability not being very good... Ford: undoubtedly has made great strides in overall vehicle quality... a week or two ago he said that despite major gains, Ford had allowed their products to slip backwards... I'm not a Ford guy but a number of people I know have bought new Fords, including my Mother... I'm damn impressed by her new Taurus... she loves it. America does have a number of problems, as do most of the 1st industrial nations... but American Quality is still very high, much higher than the garbage being shipped all over the world... most of the problems I've come across are Chinese/3rd World-sourced parts being used to build all kinds of quality products... lots of reasons why.

Anyway... my point is 3/4 of what creates a trend is perception and perception is something that the media can easily spin into a viewpoint towards which/whatever direction they want people to go... Doesnt always work, but more often than not... feed them a steady diet of important sounding things, add a few official looking people/things, insert "X" agenda, and mix throughly.

 

[CamaroAdam73]

I'm well versed in and like to use the new technology, but the thing that bothers me is how easily electronics can bring your car down. Either by accident (a fluke or mistake, etc...)or on purpose ( Electromagnetic disabling equipment or a electromagnetic pulse both are equipped by the military and police depts ) these electronics will fail with a high percentage.
Ok I'm paranoid, but it's still a true statement. That kind of failure will piss me off to no end. 😢

that's why I wear an aluminum foil hat when I driving...

Yall are behind on times, i made my own crazy hat outa carbon 😛

 

[307 Regal]

As replied to by a member of the younger generation of "spoon-feeders."

Yea, I have an 85,86,87 monte, cutty, regal, etc check, minus "cool like everyone else does" blackout job.

It has a small block chevy, ls motor, etc. (cool like everyone else does) thought about a 302 ("gen1 parts" or "LTgen parts"), but yes, a SBC. | Aluminum 5.3 wasn't in the budget

I got headers from summit, jegs, etc, (cool like everyone else does) Flowtechs for 307 from a forum member (never used by either of us) that were probably from summit/jegs. Unnamed, heavily used SBB 350 A-body headers from craigslist (based off the Hookers you bought, i.e. I copied you.)

It runs 13 sec quarters and expect it to get faster with more bolt on parts (like everyone else does) Praying to Our Lady of Blessed Acceleration that it'll do mid-14s. Would do better with an actual build.

I am thinking of a turbo charger or NOS (like everyone else does) Yep. Thought about that for a while. Until I realized how much of an expensive P.I.T.A. it would be.

I am going to put a chip in the ECM and program it with information that everyone posts on different forums (like everyone else does) not in the budget

I picked up some glass packs, magnaflow, etc for it on e-Bay, craigslist (like everyone else does) One of the few things actually in the budget at 25 bucks a pop. see answer for ECM Does Advance Auto Parts count??

Bonus Points: I'm bolting on aftermarket suspension parts because it's cool like everyone else does. Also, "because race car."

Now is the car fast and sound good....? faster anyway. aside from the ticking rockers, absolutely yes.

But what challenge at the end of the day did you have getting your end result from your car? For people like me, doing the engine swap in general was a challenge. :lol:

I'm different, like to be different. Who gives a damn if they dont like old school. All of it is cool and interesting in its own respect. I agree.

Points I'd actually like to make:
-You've gotta get parts from somewhere. Shouldn't matter where from. But if it is a rare find like hot-air turbo headers at a swap meet then there's no shame in being proud.
-The term "spoon-fed" on a forum like this will irk me until the day I die. I'd go further but I'm sure it's not worth it. I'm sure you had good reasoning, gp.
-"Glasspacks, because race car." Yea, they're loud and cheap. But I like loud and love cheap. And they don't drone (for my car anyway). But more to the point, mufflers shouldn't matter. Picking on that is like calling someone a "tool" because he wears white socks.
-The root of all evil in this multifaceted hobby is either the misplacement or lack of either respect or understanding. (<-- I'm not picking on anyone; just hear me out here.) And I don't really mean respecting other people and understanding their reasons for doing things. I'm talking about the blatant disregard for time periods and not putting the technology from those time periods into those time periods. Starting with understanding, I'm talking about actually understanding the capabilities of a car or engine, not just buying into to the myth or legend of it. Too many people (my age and older) look at "muscle cars*" like they're some kind of superheroes that are on par or better than modern cars. They don't realize that these things are antiques, mostly in the ballpark of 40 years old (the popular ones) and almost completely outdated. Comparing this old stuff to modern tech in a head-to-head fashion is way out of line (and it'd be a shame to technological progress if it wasn't). It's way too subjective. Telling someone to use a newer engine instead of a really old one is like telling someone to use a space heater instead of a fireplace. Yea, they both get the job done but it's hardly apples-to-apples. It's also like comparing a '74 Dodge Monaco to a '08 Prius just because they're cars. You've gotta use what works for you and let the guys in the pissing contest piss all over each other. (<-- sorry for that visual.)
Lastly: respect. Short and to the point, if someone enjoyed it back in 1972, you can enjoy it in 2014. Just because new stuff does it a little better, that doesn't make the old stuff "sh*t."

*I fully blame the "Need for Speed" video game franchise and "the Big Three" with their retro styling for smearing the term "muscle car" all over modern cars and setting "American sports cars" back several years. That's why guys my age consider new Mustangs, Corvettes, and 300Cs to be "muscle cars" instead of pony cars, sports cars, and full-size sedans.

 

[Clone TIE Pilot]

Just because new stuff does it a little better, that doesn't make the old stuff "sh*t."

I agree with that, but at more and more places, people use this as a reason to state that it is pointless to bother with older motors anymore. On some forums it has become so bad that anytime someone asks a question about where to start hotrodding a older motor, especially if it is a new member and/or someone wanting to replace a V6 with a V8, many replies will be just to swap an LS in and be done. They will say that it is cheaper and easier to do a LS swap than work with older gen motors anymore. That the old engines are too outdated. Even a LS swap doesn't update the rest of the car (just the motor), so using that logic why bother with old cars at all since just about everything is "outdated", not just the motors or even the drivetrain, but the very sheetmetal alloy and gasp the styling.

Some of it is this "pro-touring" marketing where they push you can update old cars up to modern standards, even though it costs just about as much as to buy a modern car to completely update a old car (whole drivetrain, frame, brakes, suspension, etc). I think it is just silly to expect modern performance form older stuff. It would be a never ending game of catch up. But as I said you just see alot of slaming of older stuff, too much and most of it untrue.

 

[rustyroger]

Along with the old gen bashing why do we get so much "consumer Reports" bashing?.Anyone know what goes into their research before publication?. I don't know either

Seem you do know!, at least you have more of an idea than me or I suspect most of us.

Roger, I have subscribed to them for years... I have read their reviews for years... There is an unfair bias... believe it or not.
Their testing facility is not very far from me... in fact it was once Connecticut's last dragstrip until they bought it out of bankruptcy. They gather their own data on vehicles and they also obtain a lot of their data comes from "readers who volunteer" and provide them with the information. One of their auto gurus is on the local radio station once a week, talking about their latest auto reviews... Then they open up the lines for people call in with questions or ask for new & used vehicle recommendations... his reply usually starts with a Toyota, followed up with a Honda, then Nissan... or the luxury rebrands Lexus, Acura, & Infinity... Even when the all-new Impala received high marks across the board, he poo-poo'd it with off hand remarks about GM's longterm reliability not being very good... Ford: undoubtedly has made great strides in overall vehicle quality... a week or two ago he said that despite major gains, Ford had allowed their products to slip backwards... I'm not a Ford guy but a number of people I know have bought new Fords, including my Mother... I'm damn impressed by her new Taurus... she loves it. America does have a number of problems, as do most of the 1st industrial nations... but American Quality is still very high, much higher than the garbage being shipped all over the world... most of the problems I've come across are Chinese/3rd World-sourced parts being used to build all kinds of quality products... lots of reasons why.

I agree with this......
Anyway... my point is 3/4 of what creates a trend is perception and perception is something that the media can easily spin into a viewpoint towards which/whatever direction they want people to go... Doesnt always work, but more often than not... feed them a steady diet of important sounding things, add a few official looking people/things, insert "X" agenda, and mix throughly.

A good example is bashing Fram filters. Sure their cheap filters aren't the best, go upmarket a bit and they are as good as any.
It's hard to get a good perspective on lots of modern life issues. A big part of the problem is getting unbiased information, mostly the media has to toe the owners line. Remember when newspapers reported the fact and left you to make an informed decision?.
On the whole I think US newspapers to a better job than ours, but I think BBC news sets a standard worth respect. Whoever is power is always accusing it of being biased against it whenever it doesn't put their spin on whatever the latest policy is.

Roger.

 

[Bonnewagon]

There is another aspect that has not been disclosed- snobbery. Just because there is a so called "best" solution doesn't mean everyone can or should go in that direction. I left ClassicalPontiac.com after 10 years because a group took over that disdained anything that wasn't a high zoot 455. It didn't matter what you were doing, their answer was always whatever was the most expensive high tech desirable solution. The recession took care of them nicely. This mentality resides at Hot Rod magazine as well as other sites because it is the easiest thing in the world to suggest the most expensive easy-way-out option as the only viable option. Wether they themselves could afford it or not is pointless since they get off on implying that if YOU can't afford it you must be some sort of peon and should just go away. I'm sure you have seen this mentality often- as in the "billet everything" builds in car mags where all aspects of the build were farmed out to the best in the industry. This is not unlike the internet bully personalities that infest some sites. Isn't it easy to be a tough guy when no one can see you living in your Mother's basement? What is distressing about this mentality is that it discourages the new young guys from getting involved. I would wager that most members here and elsewhere are just regular Joe's with regular jobs trying to raise a family and play with their cars as time and resources allow. To suggest that the LS or whatever is "best" is the ONLY option is to disregard the fact that most can't or won't go that way. Thus we get loads of how-can-I get-more-from-my-231 posts. And that is how it should be.