hurst1979olds said:
The VR1 still has the zddp in it, just an fyi. Some of the local racers swear by pennzoil and a can of MOA.
What Kind of Oil Do You Use?
- Thread starter hurst1979olds
- Start date
- Status
The VR1 still has the zddp in it, just an fyi. Some of the local racers swear by pennzoil and a can of MOA.
Been using Castrol Edge for quite awhile but on my next oil change Im thinkin about going to Royal Purple oil and filter.
I have been using castrol syntec 5w-40 in my Audi for years for about 150k miles never any problems. The cutlass I am using royal purple. When its up and going again trying out Joe Gibbs oil
Personally I run Meijer-brand oils for the DD in their Hi-Mileage 5W-30, it is rated API-rated SL; the last change I used the current SN but only b/c I couldn't find any more SM. For the Olds' I run 10W-40 conventional as it's still rated SH - SL, as since I'm not running a hi-lift / fast-ramp cam with hi-pressure valve springs and such, they run fine. I don't use Valvoline anymore as they are SN rated. I've heard good things on Brad Penn, Royal Purple and the like but don't have personal usage, also not really wanting to spend $40 for oil. I don't know anyone who runs the Edelbrock, Joe Gibbs and the like as they are too cost-prohibitive also some tests have shown not to have the ZDDP levels they claim.
This is kind of long (apologies) but feel it is informative. I tried to provide a cliff-note version of the things I've researched for work, personal and working on other builds. I've pulled info from various sources, mostly from API1509, its appendices and testing and talking with oil vendors. Links are as follows:
http://www.api.org/certification-pr...ublications/Engine-Oil-Guide-2010-120210.ashx Main page for "S" & "C" engine oil ratings / designations
http://www.api.org/certification-programs/engine-oil-diesel-exhaust-fluid/publications.aspx Main page for fluids publications
http://www.api.org/certification-pr...addendum-to-the-16th-edition-of-api-1509.aspx Main page for API1509 16th Edition
http://www.api.org/certification-pr...esel/Whats-New/1509-Technical-Bulletin-1.ashx Main page for API1509 Tech Bulletin #1
Cliff Notes:
"SG" oils were the last to have the phosphorous ratings of 1000ppm (0.10%) minimum
"SH" & "SJ" oils started the energy conservation / starburst and reductions of phosphorous
phosphorous / zinc found to be damaging to cats and emissions systems
emission systems needed to last longer due to warranty
engines started phasing out sliding valve-trains to roller valve-trains so no need of high phosphorous levels
needed to increase fuel economy, i.e. Fuel Economy Improvement 1, 2
"SH" oils rated for 0.12% max phosphorous - the last conventional "S" oil to have this much phosphorous
"SJ" oils started with reduction of phosphorous to 0.10% max (1000ppm) in 0w, 5w & 10w-30 ratings; 10w-40 & all other weights not affected
"SL" oils started with reduction of phosphorous to 0.08% min, 0.10% max in 0w, 5w, & 10w-30 ratings; 10w-40 & all other weights not affected
"SM" oils started with reduction of phosphorous to 0.06% min, 0.08% max in 0w, 5w, & 10w-30 ratings; 10w-40 & all other weights not affected
also first discussed FEI 1, FEI 2, FEI 1 + FEI 2; Sequence Test VIB
for above wear ratings see ASTM D4951 / D5185 as well as other tests for sludge, foaming, corrosion resistance, durability
Sometimes above oils were dual rated with "C" oils - if this is the case go by the "C" rating as this means will have more phosphorous
SN "Resource Conserving" oils are those that conserve energy and resources in the making and use of the oils, 1st in stores Aug 2011
SN oils are new, have more FEIs and new GF-5 rating (Gasoline-Fueled engines), effective 10-1-11, also listed as Resource Conserving
SN oils won't be dual-rated with "C" oils
"C" oils weren’t subjected to the passenger-car "S"-rated oils as they were not subject to emissions until 2007, when catalyst, low (500ppm) and ultra-low (15ppm) sulfur fuels were intro’d. Oils needed to meet these fuel requirements but also the lubricating properties of the past
The CI-4, -Plus met these as well as the CJ-4 oils while maintaining a minimum of 0.10% (1000ppm) phos rating. In “C” category oils, “C*-4” is for 4-stroke, “C*-2” is for 2-stroke engines: I added this because I’ve seen people try to buy these oils for the older non-roller engines. Also know that the diesel oils have similar amounts of “ZDDP” to regular motor oils due to current Tier 4 emissions ratings as well as previous BIN (European) ratings. Not trying to discourage people from running them but know that you aren’t getting the ZDDP amount you think you are. Also the detergents in the oils actually help decreases the phos / zinc content & may need changing more often.
Note most talk of ZDDP and its zinc properties but it’s really the phos content in the form of ZDDP. The zinc is usually 1 ~ 200 more than the listed phos content, so if phos is 1000ppm the zinc is 1100 ~ 1200ppm. These oils are mostly 15W-40, 15W-50 & 20W-50 ratings BUT some of the oils are really closer to 10W-40.
Can find some higher phos/zinc in Hi-Mileage oils like Valvoline Max Life (red bottle), Mobil 1 (blue bottle), Meijer-brand HD and 10W-40 (black bottle) or Quaker State (burgundy bottle) All of these are blended, full-synthetic; last I checked the Mobil was still rated “SJ”, currently the Meijer 10W-40 is SL – SH, API-rated SL. Note these are not donut / star-burst rated, just API listed since they are older ratings.
Updated Valvoline Motor Oil Info
Pass. Car Motor Oil (PCMO), new specially formulated oils in 0W-16, 5W-20, 5W-30, 10W-30, 10W-40. The 0W-16 is new weight, decreased viscosity but increased surface contact by 19% from 58% to 74% for 10W-40 – this increases the load carried by contact surfaces by 18/5 from 45% to 63%. Note these are based for FULL / PURE roller drive-trains = roller rocker through lifter to roller cam
I also have docs I can share, such as oil guides, ratings and such. Can perhaps send to those interested (they're PDFs so can't attach) OR perhaps admins / mods can sticky the info? Again, sorry this was very long but it helped me make the best choice for the DD and Olds'
This is kind of long (apologies) but feel it is informative. I tried to provide a cliff-note version of the things I've researched for work, personal and working on other builds. I've pulled info from various sources, mostly from API1509, its appendices and testing and talking with oil vendors. Links are as follows:
http://www.api.org/certification-pr...ublications/Engine-Oil-Guide-2010-120210.ashx Main page for "S" & "C" engine oil ratings / designations
http://www.api.org/certification-programs/engine-oil-diesel-exhaust-fluid/publications.aspx Main page for fluids publications
http://www.api.org/certification-pr...addendum-to-the-16th-edition-of-api-1509.aspx Main page for API1509 16th Edition
http://www.api.org/certification-pr...esel/Whats-New/1509-Technical-Bulletin-1.ashx Main page for API1509 Tech Bulletin #1
Cliff Notes:
"SG" oils were the last to have the phosphorous ratings of 1000ppm (0.10%) minimum
"SH" & "SJ" oils started the energy conservation / starburst and reductions of phosphorous
phosphorous / zinc found to be damaging to cats and emissions systems
emission systems needed to last longer due to warranty
engines started phasing out sliding valve-trains to roller valve-trains so no need of high phosphorous levels
needed to increase fuel economy, i.e. Fuel Economy Improvement 1, 2
"SH" oils rated for 0.12% max phosphorous - the last conventional "S" oil to have this much phosphorous
"SJ" oils started with reduction of phosphorous to 0.10% max (1000ppm) in 0w, 5w & 10w-30 ratings; 10w-40 & all other weights not affected
"SL" oils started with reduction of phosphorous to 0.08% min, 0.10% max in 0w, 5w, & 10w-30 ratings; 10w-40 & all other weights not affected
"SM" oils started with reduction of phosphorous to 0.06% min, 0.08% max in 0w, 5w, & 10w-30 ratings; 10w-40 & all other weights not affected
also first discussed FEI 1, FEI 2, FEI 1 + FEI 2; Sequence Test VIB
for above wear ratings see ASTM D4951 / D5185 as well as other tests for sludge, foaming, corrosion resistance, durability
Sometimes above oils were dual rated with "C" oils - if this is the case go by the "C" rating as this means will have more phosphorous
SN "Resource Conserving" oils are those that conserve energy and resources in the making and use of the oils, 1st in stores Aug 2011
SN oils are new, have more FEIs and new GF-5 rating (Gasoline-Fueled engines), effective 10-1-11, also listed as Resource Conserving
SN oils won't be dual-rated with "C" oils
"C" oils weren’t subjected to the passenger-car "S"-rated oils as they were not subject to emissions until 2007, when catalyst, low (500ppm) and ultra-low (15ppm) sulfur fuels were intro’d. Oils needed to meet these fuel requirements but also the lubricating properties of the past
The CI-4, -Plus met these as well as the CJ-4 oils while maintaining a minimum of 0.10% (1000ppm) phos rating. In “C” category oils, “C*-4” is for 4-stroke, “C*-2” is for 2-stroke engines: I added this because I’ve seen people try to buy these oils for the older non-roller engines. Also know that the diesel oils have similar amounts of “ZDDP” to regular motor oils due to current Tier 4 emissions ratings as well as previous BIN (European) ratings. Not trying to discourage people from running them but know that you aren’t getting the ZDDP amount you think you are. Also the detergents in the oils actually help decreases the phos / zinc content & may need changing more often.
Note most talk of ZDDP and its zinc properties but it’s really the phos content in the form of ZDDP. The zinc is usually 1 ~ 200 more than the listed phos content, so if phos is 1000ppm the zinc is 1100 ~ 1200ppm. These oils are mostly 15W-40, 15W-50 & 20W-50 ratings BUT some of the oils are really closer to 10W-40.
Can find some higher phos/zinc in Hi-Mileage oils like Valvoline Max Life (red bottle), Mobil 1 (blue bottle), Meijer-brand HD and 10W-40 (black bottle) or Quaker State (burgundy bottle) All of these are blended, full-synthetic; last I checked the Mobil was still rated “SJ”, currently the Meijer 10W-40 is SL – SH, API-rated SL. Note these are not donut / star-burst rated, just API listed since they are older ratings.
Updated Valvoline Motor Oil Info
Pass. Car Motor Oil (PCMO), new specially formulated oils in 0W-16, 5W-20, 5W-30, 10W-30, 10W-40. The 0W-16 is new weight, decreased viscosity but increased surface contact by 19% from 58% to 74% for 10W-40 – this increases the load carried by contact surfaces by 18/5 from 45% to 63%. Note these are based for FULL / PURE roller drive-trains = roller rocker through lifter to roller cam
I also have docs I can share, such as oil guides, ratings and such. Can perhaps send to those interested (they're PDFs so can't attach) OR perhaps admins / mods can sticky the info? Again, sorry this was very long but it helped me make the best choice for the DD and Olds'
I guess it really depends on how you use your car.
My cars are all daily drivers and I've used Castrol dino for many years for all of them with no problems yet. I change the oil every 3-5k depending on how the oil looks, and really don't worry too much about the filter brand.
81 Malibu - 160K????miles -had it for 3 yrs
97 Corolla 287K - I bought it at 135K
2nd 97 Corolla 180K - I bought it at118K
95 S10 pickup 188K - I bought it at 168K
91 Subaru 290K (sold) - bought new, sold at 290K, still going strong when sold
My cars are all daily drivers and I've used Castrol dino for many years for all of them with no problems yet. I change the oil every 3-5k depending on how the oil looks, and really don't worry too much about the filter brand.
81 Malibu - 160K????miles -had it for 3 yrs
97 Corolla 287K - I bought it at 135K
2nd 97 Corolla 180K - I bought it at118K
95 S10 pickup 188K - I bought it at 168K
91 Subaru 290K (sold) - bought new, sold at 290K, still going strong when sold
Oldsmoletick said:
VR1 here too, it still gets away with the ZDDP because it is 'Racing Formula" ie not for normal consumption. Plus, my machine shop whines when I bring in a block that has had VR1 in it because the vat will not fully remove its residue...its the GOOD stuff. I used to add GM EOS on new cams or break-in on fresh motors....
Miller semi synthetic 10w30 in my Olds, Miller mineral 10w40 in my Nissan Micra, Miller diesel synthetic 15w40 in my fiances Peugeot.
Roger.
Roger.
- Status
Similar threads
