Have high powered factory cars ruined hotrodding???

[Mikej89]

I guess for the street I consider anything beyond 3:55's to start getting on the "low side". The 3.73's aren't that low, it's all a matter of perspective I suppose. I had a '78 El Camino with the lowest HP 350 ever made in it (1973 L65 2bbl with 145hp). But it was a stump puller with 255 lb ft@2400rpm. With that motor the super high stock gears of 2.29 or 2.41 actually worked great with the power band of that engine (not sure which it had).

Ok I gotcha. Truthfully I was afraid to go with a 3:23 or 3:42, be somewhat satisfied and then want more. In this case I think I'm there anyways. I don't think even if I get the transmission right that i'll enjoy the 3:73's that much. The concept of my car was a cruiser with some decent power. Technically I already had that. I had no complaints about how it drive but I just had to mess with stuff. I could easily see myself changing to 3:23's(highest that carrier will handle) in the near future.[/QUOTE]

Sure, I can understand that. Why put the money and time in then it comes out unsatisfactory? I just looked up the specs on the 350 HO and looks like they make peak torque at 3800rpm, which is a lot higher than I was guessing! I was thinking they were around 3200.

 

[Mikej89]

I'd only say "ruined" if you are talking about what hot-rodding used to be. More so, the game has been changed and has become more expensive. It's not so easy to be King of the Hill anymore. When I stop and think about it it makes my Buick 350 swap seem like an absolute waste of time and money. Sure it's more powerful than my Olds 307 was, albeit far scarier to beat on. But I kick myself for not sticking to my guns on an LS swap, which would have been faster still, and practically the same cost. So instead, my SBB with cam, headers, and intake is maybe pushing 240hp (I hope) while I live in constant fear of another ruined camshaft, ala Buick oiling problems.

All this being said, I think the problem lies within ourselves. The problem is that we're all driving antiques but we're not treating them as such. Sure they sound tough and they draw a crowd whether we like it or not, but we mistake that for relevance in modern performance way too often. Why are we pushing these antiquated things to such high standards? I know it's rewarding to hot rod, but why didn't we start with a better platform? Why aren't we all looking at modern engines? Because we all drank the legendary muscle car Koolaid. Show up to a gas station, car meet, wherever, and watch the admiration. Show up to a race of any kind without tens of thousands in swaps and mods, you might as well be driving a model T. Sure, a musket can make something just as dead as an AR-15, but don't show up expecting to clean house in a modern fire fight. Every industry pushes for improvements over the years, and if you don't keep up with it you get left in the dust. Muscle cars are experiencing that now. They're getting more and more extreme to keep up. Sure we can go buy a Schwartz Chassis and do a turbo LS swap, but do we not realize how extreme that is? We're saying that in order to be competitive with a G body, we literally have to put the body on a race platform. We are essentially talking about making street legal stock cars. That's not hot rodding. That's building a race car. With race cars, all bets are off.

I realize some of this sounds harsh, so I apologize, but take this to heart: Do your absolute best to enjoy your car for what it is. A beautiful old automobile, with a little bit of fun mixed in by the owner. A pleasure to look at and refreshing to drive. Don't ask it to beat a new GT500, and don't feel bad when you get beat by a new Challenger R/T.

Well put, sir! From my perspective, I love the idea of building a 350-400hp SBC on a budget and going out and taking names. Guys did that for DECADES and it worked. I know a lot of you got to experience that. The reason why it maybe bothers me more is I didn't... I just got a taste of the tail end of it being born in '89. I can't stand the performance scene now. I like just the classic SBC with iron heads and high lift cam you can build without spending a ton of money. You essentially need to be an expert in everything now to build a competitive machine. You have to be a professional welder, research how to build and tune your own turbo/nitrous systems for 5 years, do painstaking dyno tuning with computer software, know how to build custom sport suspensions, know every aspect of modifying modern fuel injection systems, etc. If your whole life doesn't revolve around building cars, you'll get left behind.

 

[UNGN]

You sound like you're not very fond of "the muscle car guys" lol. They were rich in the late 80's/early 90s? I've heard of guys buying 440-6pack Cudas, etc. for 3 grand back then... I know that was probably a lot for a used car then but it sure beats 70 grand lol.

In 1986 We bought a 440-6 'Cuda with 27K miles for $6,500. By the mid 1990s it was worth $20,000. By the late 1990's it was worth $30K, by 2002 it was worth $60K.

People had stopped modifying "real" big block musclecars in the 1990s unless they were too far gone to restore, because there was so much more money in putting them back to stock (and they were not all that fast by 1990's standards, stock).

The current restomod craze is a revolt against the concours car show guys putting muscle cars (that were cheap and meant to be driven) in trailers and dragging them to car shows instead of competing with other muscle cars on race tracks.

 

[Clutch]

In my opinion they that buy factory built hot rods should be kept separate from us that build them blood sweet and ters should not be jugged agenst the long dollar of someone who can't change oil! When I had my 84 Monte SS I took it to a show and a hell cat wone most original car wtf? Yea it's original it's got a friggin bank lone! I'm just saying that they have there place and it's not with older cars!

 

[Qdub24]

I'm glad that I can enjoy the best of both worlds and that all of my cars can get along.

 

[zdeckich]

Lots of butt hurt in this thread lol.

 

[motorheadmike]

Well put, sir! From my perspective, I love the idea of building a 350-400hp SBC on a budget and going out and taking names. Guys did that for DECADES and it worked. I know a lot of you got to experience that. The reason why it maybe bothers me more is I didn't... I just got a taste of the tail end of it being born in '89. I can't stand the performance scene now. I like just the classic SBC with iron heads and high lift cam you can build without spending a ton of money. You essentially need to be an expert in everything now to build a competitive machine. You have to be a professional welder, research how to build and tune your own turbo/nitrous systems for 5 years, do painstaking dyno tuning with computer software, know how to build custom sport suspensions, know every aspect of modifying modern fuel injection systems, etc. If your whole life doesn't revolve around building cars, you'll get left behind.

Yes, being there and doing that was fun - especially on a budget.

However, all those other specialized skills you listed came from not accepting the status quo and choosing to push my limits. I do agree that it does force you to step up or get left behind - but, only if you are obsessed with going fast you will do what you have to. Otherwise there is nothing wrong with tooling around in blissful nostalgia.

 

[pontiacgp]

it makes me wonder about the insecurities of some of the guys who buy these new "hot roids" I have some pull up beside me at a light wanting to show me how fast their car is. One guy in my town with a Tesla is always egging me on to race him at light whenever we are side by side. My GP is quick enough for me but no challenge to a $100,000 car so why are these guy so intimidated by an old GP. I have talked to the guy who owns the Tesla and told him if he ever wants to race we can head to an asphalt circle track but he hasn't taken me up on that offer. I wonder what life these guys have when they are not driving their overpriced security blanket.

 

[motorheadmike]

it makes me wonder about the insecurities of some of the guys who buy these new "hot roids" I have some pull up beside me at a light wanting to show me how fast their car is. One guy in my town with a Tesla is always egging me on to race him at light whenever we are side by side. My GP is quick enough for me but no challenge to a $100,000 car so why are these guy so intimidated by an old GP. I have talked to the guy who owns the Tesla and told him if he ever wants to race we can head to an asphalt circle track but he hasn't taken me up on that offer. I wonder what life these guys have when they are not driving their overpriced security blanket.

Not totally related, but relatable story: Yesterday when I was test driving the wagon I got to the top of the street, stopped and watch a pick-up blow through his stop sign, he then hit the brakes and almost broke his neck trying to catch a glimpse. That is the difference between new cars and old cars - new cars don't evoke the same emotions in people that old cars due the lack of a relationship built with them. Give it time, and someone will be restoring a Telsa just to race a flying car.

 

[Qdub24]

I'm somewhat surprised by the saltiness in this topic. Most of our beloved G-bodies were considered Granny cars and/or hoopties for much of the last 30 years. It seems that some of the owners of these beloved machines are upset that new cars are more than capable right off of the lot of putting these old cars to shame. I always thought the purpose of hot rodding was to build something capable of competing with the new heat from the factory or your buddy's hot rod? If you just want to build a cruiser, then be content with that.

By the way, the new muscle cars seem to turn a lot of heads too, especially this new Scat Pack Charger.