307 to 403 Olds swap...info please?
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I used the original CCC carb and picked up a CCC junkyard distributor on a Chevy 350 in my 442 for a couple years and it ran great.
Ok spent the weekend at the shop and running all over town for parts. Here's the novel!
- The 350 in the Cutlass is finally RUNNING!!
BUT.....
- I now understand how stupid I was to try to retain the stock computer, 307 carb and computer distributor. There I said it..
SATURDAY:
Here's the deal, got everything finally all hooked up Saturday. The pretty '71 Olds 350 that I spent so much time painting and detailing was now buried under an ugly (but supposedly rebuilt!) computer quadrajet carb and 10,000 vaccum lines. It looked for all the world just like the 307...with some chrome valve covers added....yuck. The smog pump and related hoses are gone, but I put all the sensors, vaccum hoses, and connections off the 307 back on the 350. It's was not pretty.
Prime the carb, turn the key, and the new 350 engine fired right up! Cool. Then it stalled. It would start, but not idle.
After messing with it for an hour, tracing vaccum lines, looking for vaccum leaks, staring at the Check Engine Light glowing on the dash, wiggling sensors and trying to adjust the carb and the timing to make it run right, I was about to scream or cry or something.
I ended up adjusting the idle to 1300 rpm, where the engine ran smooth, and took it around the block.
The GOOD is that the engine has no knocks, taps, and does not smoke, and has TONS more power than the 307. The exhaust does not leak and the engine didn't drip and fluids. All that is good.
The BAD is that below 1300 rpm, the engine is shaking around, and below 1100 it stalls.
Dang.
Time for PLAN B! The computer is going BYE-BYE!!
I went and bought the brand new 600cfm electric choke Edelbrock above. It's a thing of beauty, I tell you it's pretty....and it wiped out pretty much all that was left of my paycheck too, but dammit, I want this car to RUN RIGHT!!
Spent the rest of Saturday afternoon taking stuff off the top of the engine, and cursing myself for doing all that work trying to keep it stock.
My current plan is to retain the vaccum for the heater valve, retain the cruise control wiring and vaccum, keep the temp sensors for the dash gauge and light, keep the air conditioning wiring, and pardon the term, but to shitcan the rest of the hoses, sensors, and associated garbage that's hiding my pretty new engine.
So I got to work.
Once I got all the garbage off the top the engine I set out to look for parts. I needed two shorter bolts to install the Elelbrock carb on the intake (the new engine already had an Edelbrock Performer 350 intake on it, so this is a good match of carb and intake I hope!), needed to cut the metal fuel line and replace it with a rubber line and an inline fuel filter.
On setting the carb on the intake, I realized the EGR valve is going to be in the way of the rod for the cruise control. I thought about it a minute....do I really need an EGR valve? The engine is a '71 model, it didn't have one new. SO off came the EGR valve, but NONE of the local parts stores had a block-off plate for it. I went to them all, but it was almost 8pm now. Finally at O'Reilly the guy said he found a chrome Mr. Gasket plate at a South Austin store, but it would be closed by the time I got there.
So I went back to the shop, closed up, and went home and showered for about an hour.
Saturday night I re-read this thread for tips from you guys, as well as going over the G-body forum and going through 307-to-350 swaps here. I realized that I'd forgotten in my frustration over how it ran and my buying the new carb that the advance and retard on the 307's distributor was controlled by the computer. I would need a pre-1980 Olds vaccum distributor to go with the Edelbrock carb. The bad part was I was now pretty much broke. I looked online and the lowest price I could find for a new disributor locally was $104 from AutoZone. Ouch. I did find out that the new cap and rotor I'd put on the 307's distributor were the same parts numbers as the pre-80 models called for, so at least I could use those again.
SO today I got up early and headed for Wrench-A-Part in search of a used distributor. Took some pics of cars there and will post them in the photos section for you guys.
In the far left corner of the yard I found this 1978 Buick wagon, with an Olds 403 engine under the hood:
The car was up so high I could not even reach the distributor, so I stacked up some wheels and pulled the VERY GREEN vinyl lower seat cushion from the 2nd row, and layed it in the engine bay, then climbed up and layed across the engine on the seat, and after a lot of sweating and cursing, nabbed this for $30! Woo-hoo!
Next I hiked out of the yard, which in the direct sun on the white rocks had to be about 110-degrees, got into my pickup, which was about 125-degrees inside after sitting in the dusty parking lot, and got on the highway back toward town with the a/c cranking.
I got to the O-Reilly Parts Store in South Austin and $10 later had a new chrome EGR block-off in my hand. The counter guy asked what I was going to use that on. He said according to the computer that part had been in the store since 1996! Wow! I told him about the Cutlass and he said he'd love to see it, and then I got back in the truck and headed for home.
Off the subject, but for someone that grew up under the Federal 55, seeing these new signs on SH45 is pretty awesome. Could not resisit nabbing the pic below:
God Bless Texas!
I got home and Misty made it clear that, after showing, I needed to spend some time with her and the kiddos, so that's as far as I got this weekend. Went to my parents house and we all went swimming, which with my sunburn from the salvage yard, felt like heaven! Then my wife took us to dinner. Nice.
Now I'm just settling down and figured I'd share the weekend work with ya'll. I'll get back over to the shop after work a few nights this week I hope. I'm still concerned about the a/c and cruise working now that the computer is out of the loop, and also if I'm going to have to modify the transmission since the overdrive and lock-up converter are computer controlled. Will have to read into all that.
For now, the immediate goal is to get the car really running well, and get it back home so I can clean and detail under the hood and then I'll start sorting out the questions above. As long as I can get it running, I believe I can drive it the 12 miles home from the shop in drive/3rd, not overdrive, and not hurt the transmission.
That's all for now gang!
-Mike
- The 350 in the Cutlass is finally RUNNING!!
BUT.....
- I now understand how stupid I was to try to retain the stock computer, 307 carb and computer distributor. There I said it..
SATURDAY:
Here's the deal, got everything finally all hooked up Saturday. The pretty '71 Olds 350 that I spent so much time painting and detailing was now buried under an ugly (but supposedly rebuilt!) computer quadrajet carb and 10,000 vaccum lines. It looked for all the world just like the 307...with some chrome valve covers added....yuck. The smog pump and related hoses are gone, but I put all the sensors, vaccum hoses, and connections off the 307 back on the 350. It's was not pretty.
Prime the carb, turn the key, and the new 350 engine fired right up! Cool. Then it stalled. It would start, but not idle.
After messing with it for an hour, tracing vaccum lines, looking for vaccum leaks, staring at the Check Engine Light glowing on the dash, wiggling sensors and trying to adjust the carb and the timing to make it run right, I was about to scream or cry or something.
I ended up adjusting the idle to 1300 rpm, where the engine ran smooth, and took it around the block.
The GOOD is that the engine has no knocks, taps, and does not smoke, and has TONS more power than the 307. The exhaust does not leak and the engine didn't drip and fluids. All that is good.
The BAD is that below 1300 rpm, the engine is shaking around, and below 1100 it stalls.
Dang.
Time for PLAN B! The computer is going BYE-BYE!!
I went and bought the brand new 600cfm electric choke Edelbrock above. It's a thing of beauty, I tell you it's pretty....and it wiped out pretty much all that was left of my paycheck too, but dammit, I want this car to RUN RIGHT!!
Spent the rest of Saturday afternoon taking stuff off the top of the engine, and cursing myself for doing all that work trying to keep it stock.
My current plan is to retain the vaccum for the heater valve, retain the cruise control wiring and vaccum, keep the temp sensors for the dash gauge and light, keep the air conditioning wiring, and pardon the term, but to shitcan the rest of the hoses, sensors, and associated garbage that's hiding my pretty new engine.
So I got to work.
Once I got all the garbage off the top the engine I set out to look for parts. I needed two shorter bolts to install the Elelbrock carb on the intake (the new engine already had an Edelbrock Performer 350 intake on it, so this is a good match of carb and intake I hope!), needed to cut the metal fuel line and replace it with a rubber line and an inline fuel filter.
On setting the carb on the intake, I realized the EGR valve is going to be in the way of the rod for the cruise control. I thought about it a minute....do I really need an EGR valve? The engine is a '71 model, it didn't have one new. SO off came the EGR valve, but NONE of the local parts stores had a block-off plate for it. I went to them all, but it was almost 8pm now. Finally at O'Reilly the guy said he found a chrome Mr. Gasket plate at a South Austin store, but it would be closed by the time I got there.
So I went back to the shop, closed up, and went home and showered for about an hour.
Saturday night I re-read this thread for tips from you guys, as well as going over the G-body forum and going through 307-to-350 swaps here. I realized that I'd forgotten in my frustration over how it ran and my buying the new carb that the advance and retard on the 307's distributor was controlled by the computer. I would need a pre-1980 Olds vaccum distributor to go with the Edelbrock carb. The bad part was I was now pretty much broke. I looked online and the lowest price I could find for a new disributor locally was $104 from AutoZone. Ouch. I did find out that the new cap and rotor I'd put on the 307's distributor were the same parts numbers as the pre-80 models called for, so at least I could use those again.
SO today I got up early and headed for Wrench-A-Part in search of a used distributor. Took some pics of cars there and will post them in the photos section for you guys.
In the far left corner of the yard I found this 1978 Buick wagon, with an Olds 403 engine under the hood:
The car was up so high I could not even reach the distributor, so I stacked up some wheels and pulled the VERY GREEN vinyl lower seat cushion from the 2nd row, and layed it in the engine bay, then climbed up and layed across the engine on the seat, and after a lot of sweating and cursing, nabbed this for $30! Woo-hoo!
Next I hiked out of the yard, which in the direct sun on the white rocks had to be about 110-degrees, got into my pickup, which was about 125-degrees inside after sitting in the dusty parking lot, and got on the highway back toward town with the a/c cranking.
I got to the O-Reilly Parts Store in South Austin and $10 later had a new chrome EGR block-off in my hand. The counter guy asked what I was going to use that on. He said according to the computer that part had been in the store since 1996! Wow! I told him about the Cutlass and he said he'd love to see it, and then I got back in the truck and headed for home.
Off the subject, but for someone that grew up under the Federal 55, seeing these new signs on SH45 is pretty awesome. Could not resisit nabbing the pic below:
God Bless Texas!
I got home and Misty made it clear that, after showing, I needed to spend some time with her and the kiddos, so that's as far as I got this weekend. Went to my parents house and we all went swimming, which with my sunburn from the salvage yard, felt like heaven! Then my wife took us to dinner. Nice.
Now I'm just settling down and figured I'd share the weekend work with ya'll. I'll get back over to the shop after work a few nights this week I hope. I'm still concerned about the a/c and cruise working now that the computer is out of the loop, and also if I'm going to have to modify the transmission since the overdrive and lock-up converter are computer controlled. Will have to read into all that.
For now, the immediate goal is to get the car really running well, and get it back home so I can clean and detail under the hood and then I'll start sorting out the questions above. As long as I can get it running, I believe I can drive it the 12 miles home from the shop in drive/3rd, not overdrive, and not hurt the transmission.
That's all for now gang!
-Mike
Well shoot, in looking around the Edlebrock 1406 will not bolt on the Performer 350 EGR Edelbrock manifold that my rebuilt 350 came with. The shift linkage will hit the EGR boss. It looks like I'll need a 1-1/4 inch spacer to make it work.
Ah the joys of mixing and matching aftermarket parts.
I hope the hood will close over the air cleaner once I do this. Will head to the parts store and lunch and see if I can find a spacer to make this work. Such fun.
-Mike
Ah the joys of mixing and matching aftermarket parts.
I hope the hood will close over the air cleaner once I do this. Will head to the parts store and lunch and see if I can find a spacer to make this work. Such fun.
-Mike
Ran over to the local speed shop, Austin Performance, just now. Told them the issue with the carb, and the guy smiled and handed me this:
VERY COOL! It's made specifically to adapt an aftermarket carb to a Quadrajet intake. Even includes studs, nuts, and gaskets. $25, hard to argue with that!!
I dropped it off at the shop, and found the NEXT issue. The EGR blockoff plate that I bought does not fit. It's too small.
I went back to Austin Performance and was told that Edelbrock does include an EGR blockoff plate with their new manifolds, but does not sell them outright. Dang! He said most people have them made or make them themselves, BUT he gave me the number of a shop that might have some laying around. I called and the guy is looking and said he'd call me back.
Ok then. Back to work.
-Mike
VERY COOL! It's made specifically to adapt an aftermarket carb to a Quadrajet intake. Even includes studs, nuts, and gaskets. $25, hard to argue with that!!
I dropped it off at the shop, and found the NEXT issue. The EGR blockoff plate that I bought does not fit. It's too small.
I went back to Austin Performance and was told that Edelbrock does include an EGR blockoff plate with their new manifolds, but does not sell them outright. Dang! He said most people have them made or make them themselves, BUT he gave me the number of a shop that might have some laying around. I called and the guy is looking and said he'd call me back.
Ok then. Back to work.
-Mike
I use a beer can, cut it up (after proper consumption of the contents), and use that as a block off gasket and then bolt the EGR valve back on. You can saw off the top of the EGR valve and just use the bottom flange to bolt back on to the intake with the beer can block off gasket.
Good luck!
Good luck!
KrisW said:
It may come to this! We'll see. Hope my contact has the "right" one!
But will have a beer after work...just in case. 😀
Your engine should've ran fine on the CCC system if it was all hooked up right. If it didn't, then something was wrong with one or more of the components, not the CCC system itself per se. Not trying to bust your balls, but you could've saved yourself some time and money to just tune what you had. Checking what code you were getting would've been the first step. You don't need much of those excess vac lines for a properly functioning CCC system either.
Now if you insisted on dumping the computer, I would've strongly suggested a Qjet. Now you see what happens when you don't use a Qjet in these situations; you need to buy a flow restricting adaptor, change your fuel line, switch to electric choke, make sure your TV cable geometry is right, make sure your cruise arm attaches properly not to mention cheating yourself out of a some gas milage and performance with that 600cfm Edelbrock. You also lose the cool 'stock' look it sounds like you were going for.
As you stated, you will have to rewire your AC to get it to work and you'll have to find a way to lock your converter. You will have to ground another wire to get your cruise to work too. You will most likely need to recurve that distributor too since it's calibrated for EGR and you're not running one.
But with all of that being said, as long as you're happy with your car then that's all that matters! At least you're being productive which is alot more than I can say for some of the people I personally know who just procrastinate and don't follow through with their projects....
Now if you insisted on dumping the computer, I would've strongly suggested a Qjet. Now you see what happens when you don't use a Qjet in these situations; you need to buy a flow restricting adaptor, change your fuel line, switch to electric choke, make sure your TV cable geometry is right, make sure your cruise arm attaches properly not to mention cheating yourself out of a some gas milage and performance with that 600cfm Edelbrock. You also lose the cool 'stock' look it sounds like you were going for.
As you stated, you will have to rewire your AC to get it to work and you'll have to find a way to lock your converter. You will have to ground another wire to get your cruise to work too. You will most likely need to recurve that distributor too since it's calibrated for EGR and you're not running one.
But with all of that being said, as long as you're happy with your car then that's all that matters! At least you're being productive which is alot more than I can say for some of the people I personally know who just procrastinate and don't follow through with their projects....
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