.50 taller ball joints?

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If you randomly google images of Wheel standing G-bodies:

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You'll see the "Lots of Negative Camber" at full droop. This in non ideal, even in a straight line, but in a turn, its worse, because the camber on the outside tire is going positive, while the inside tire is going negative, so the car is actively trying to make the front contact patches smaller on BOTH tires during cornering.

No modern performance car and almost no "family sedan" still has suspension that does this in 2018. The G-body front suspension geometry was done purely to make people "drive slower" by making the front tires squeal like a stuck pig at first sign of enthusiastic driving.

The Eagle GT tire was actually designed to roll over on its sidewall and stick better than earlier tires so the factory G-body handling is significantly better than "handling cars" from a decade earlier. A T/A Challenger or AAR cuda only did .70 G on the skid pad with larger tires vs. an '86 T-type pulling an .82G.

Tire tests of the Eagle GT's in the early 1980's talked about their ability to use their sidewalls for grip when cornering. Engineers spec'ing them on performance G-body's probably chose them for this ability.

Modern, low profile tires don't have this ability and when combined with the factory geometry and alignment specs can have more understeer than when the car had new 215/65 Eagle GT's on it, without adding more static negative camber and/or tall ball joints.
 
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I don't think anyone noted this yet, but when you add tall ball joints to one position (top or bottom) you'll need to add a couple more alignment shims than before in order to get back to your previous settings. I noticed this back when I put tall uppers on my stock upper A arms. Your camber curve improves, but since the upper A arm is closer to "sticking straight out" than before: your static camber changes. It becomes more positive. But unlike camber curve, static camber can be fixed with alignment shims! So no big deal; just realize you'll need your camber reset to where it was after installing tall ball joints.

And just for reference, here's my car right after adding tall upper ball joints. (I hadn't reset the camber yet but you can still see a difference compared to the wheel stand UNGN shared above!)
IMG_1734.JPG
 
Awesome information

So can one use the taller ball joint on the lower and standard on the top?
Or will the taller top be required also
 
Awesome information

So can one use the taller ball joint on the lower and standard on the top?
Or will the taller top be required also

Yes. One tall ball joint on the top or bottom still provides better geometry than two standard ball joints.
 
With stock ball joints, when the wheels droop, they go negative about 3 degrees and when they go up, they go positive about 1 degree. This a a 4 degree swing in the opposite direction of ideal.

Ideal would be zero to slightly positive camber droop and negative camber when they go up.

Taller ball joints will turn the bad 4 degree swing into about a good 2-3 degree swing, so if they are zero at rest, they will go to about 1 positive at full droop and around 1 negative full up. How much it changes depends on the ride height and static camber, but the camber swing is definitely smaller AND better with tall ball joints.

If I had a G-body that could pull the front wheels, I would definitely put tall ball joints on it.

THIS IS A MUST!!!
I fixed mine last year and what a difference! When the wheels were up it was 3-4 deg. neg. and it toed out 3-3.5 inches! When the car landed it looked like the front wheels were going to shake off the car. The car is set up with Moroso drag coils and drag shocks. The front end was topped out under power all the way down the track. Try driving a car over 100mph (1/8 mile) like this.
After trying a few things that didn't work for me, this is what I ended up with...New stock LCA with 1/2" longer lower BJ, New UMI adjustable UCA with 1/2" longer upper BJ and a UMI bump steer kit and kept the same coils and shocks.
Now the camber at rest is set at -0.25* Caster is +6.5* Toe is 0.00 With the wheels in the air the camber is +0.5* and the toe is +0.5*
The UMI uppers did limit the travel (droop) some but I didn't measure the distance. Which was a good thing for me.
It's like driving a new car. AND it made it faster!
 

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Nice clarmo,i've never seen anyone run the bumpsteer kit before.I've never tried to measure the amount of bumpsteer(mark savaskie has an easy method)but i think for what most of us (not all)are up to with our cars just the lower bj spindle height change is enough.that's cool you've got a nice set up there.
 
Nice clarmo,i've never seen anyone run the bumpsteer kit before.I've never tried to measure the amount of bumpsteer(mark savaskie has an easy method)but i think for what most of us (not all)are up to with our cars just the lower bj spindle height change is enough.that's cool you've got a nice set up there.
Thanks. I agree the OP will get what he needs with the taller lower ball joint. And there should be no trouble getting the alignment done if they know what they are doing. I own and operate an automotive repair shop and I've done wheel alignments for 25 years. With the car on the alignment machine it's nice and easy to see the live changes in all the angles when going from rest to wheels up. I have no idea how to check without one...I just bought the $40,000 machine LOL.
I do know by adjusting the bump steer...the outer tie rod up or down even 1/8th makes a big difference. While adjusting mine I spent lots of time on it to try and make it perfect. A 1/8th shim At the outer tie rod would change the toe 0.75 of a degree. From where I set it 0.0 rest, +0.5 raised... to 0.0 rest to -0.25 raised.
Agreed most wouldn't need to fix bump steer, but I wonder how it would affect the daily driver (aggressive daily driver 😏)
 
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