79 Cutlass Wagon G-machine build

[liquidh8]

Looking good, having the access to the tools makes everything easier. I have similar plans involved for my Buick wagon, Hitch and all.

The rear sway bar, I used a 98-02 Blazer bar, 1 inch. It is a bit narrower then the F-body and fit nicer IMO.

As always, good work. 😀

 

[mebe007]

now thats the right attitude lol 😀 and i love novas as well. I actually own the pontiac version. I have a 1973 pontiac ventura custom. thats my next project. it was my dads first car and my buick was mine. kind of a cool history. i plan to build the original 455 up for the pontiac when the time comes.

 

[Longroof79]

Looking good, having the access to the tools makes everything easier. I have similar plans involved for my Buick wagon, Hitch and all.

The rear sway bar, I used a 98-02 Blazer bar, 1 inch. It is a bit narrower then the F-body and fit nicer IMO.

As always, good work. 😀

Hey Jim,
Is the Blazer rear bar similar to the G-body bar in appearance, or is it like the F-body end link type bar? The reason I ask is because I could probably locate one easy enough.
That would probably go well with the 36mm front bar that I plan to install.

 

[clean8485]

Ben, thanks for the latest updates. Fantastic descriptions and photos as always. When you notched the frame, did you reinforce the area you narrowed? I couldn't tell from the photos, and you didn't mention anything in your description. Have you seen the writeup on MCSS.com regarding the new G body frame from Schwartz Performance? I'm really liking your efforts with the extra braces as well. Sorry to hear about your instructor. I hope that his treatment is successful, and he's back soon. Keep up your good work, and the updates.

 

[liquidh8]

Looking good, having the access to the tools makes everything easier. I have similar plans involved for my Buick wagon, Hitch and all.

The rear sway bar, I used a 98-02 Blazer bar, 1 inch. It is a bit narrower then the F-body and fit nicer IMO.

As always, good work. 😀

Hey Jim,
Is the Blazer rear bar similar to the G-body bar in appearance, or is it like the F-body end link type bar? The reason I ask is because I could probably locate one easy enough.
That would probably go well with the 36mm front bar that I plan to install.

Jack, it is lick the F-body with the links. I made mounts for the axle tubes on my 9", and this holds the bar, and the end links I have yet to fab up. But it is similar to the SC&C pro-touring bar.

 

[Longroof79]

The rear sway bar, I used a 98-02 Blazer bar, 1 inch. It is a bit narrower then the F-body and fit nicer IMO.

Hey Jim,
Is the Blazer rear bar similar to the G-body bar in appearance, or is it like the F-body end link type bar? The reason I ask is because I could probably locate one easy enough.
That would probably go well with the 36mm front bar that I plan to install.

Jack, it is like the F-body with the links. I made mounts for the axle tubes on my 9", and this holds the bar, and the end links I have yet to fab up. But it is similar to the SC&C pro-touring bar.

Another question for you, Jim,
Can you use the end link mounts (that bolt to the frame) from the Blazer as well?
Thanks man!
Sorry to hijack your thread, Ben. :?

 

[khan0165]

to liquidh8 and SRD art

what are the odds of two wagon projects at this scale happening side by side with similar build plans in mind! The level of workmanship is professional grade, and creativity overwhelming! And I'm so impressed with the level of write-ups for the thread itself... You guys display information in such a concise and coherent manner, and have a way of describing tricky work in a way anyone can understand! You guys are one of the perfect examples for this board.

I may not post much, and often times it's because my dumb comment "awesome work guys" is just not enough to capsulate how impressed I am with what you guys are doing
but I definitely stay tuned to every post!

 

[liquidh8]

Yes Ben sorry, but you may be able to use this info too?

Jack, I didn't use the links. They kinda resemble two tiny tie rod ends, And they were a set length. I have to fab the End link bracket for the frame side yet, and plan on using hiem end joints.

 

[SRD art]

liquid- No worries, this is all great information. One of the purposes of my thread is to pass info along. Info about doing things cheap will always fall upon open ears. 🙂

I'd like to hear more about the S10 bar. Any photos of the bar mocked up?

For those who are thinking of using the 82-92 Camaro rear bar, I found out it doesn't work. With the bar facing forward it's just wide enough to put the end links right above the lower control arms, so they'd collide if there is any suspension travel. I got on the net and looked at photos of rear sway bars and noticed with trucks they often are connected behind the axle. Using this thought process I flipped the Camaro bar and with the suspension at estimated ride height the Camaro brackets almost match up to the frame. With longer end links, a couple holes drilled, and maybe a 1/4" spacer between the frame and the mount I think it could be a bolt in. I'll be working that out when I reassemble everything.

Just passing more info along here- After 2.5 hours on the phone with Marcus from SC&C I sure got an earful of how to make a G-body handle. He gave me a lot of food for thought and changed some thinking. Two things I'd like to pass along- Apparently bigger isn't always better and just like a cam needs the right intake system, heads, converter, and gears to work correctly, sway bars, springs, shocks, and geometry all have to match. He suggested that for my car the factory front sway bar may work better than the 36 mm Camaro bar I picked up from the wrecking yard. He mentioned that he once marketed a smaller diameter bar matched well to our cars and it didn't sell. He then marketed a very thin wall hollow large bar which had the same dynamic characteristics of the smaller bar and they sold like crazy. Generally speaking it's a mindset that we have to show off our big chests with a cool fat sway bar, even at the expense of our ignorance that they may make things worse than better. He must be right because that's what I thought. I bought his stage 2 plus front upper arms to get the geometry in line and he suggested try out the car with the thinner factory bars and let him know how it did. He's pretty confident that it will be pretty close to where it needs to be with the right springs and shocks. The arms should get rid of the issues associated with the goofy g-body factory geometry and the rest of the system will compliment that change without using race car specs on parts. In a nut shell fat sway bars and heavy springs on a g-body are like putting a band aid on when you just chopped an arm off if you don't correct the goofy geometry first.

He also suggested after correcting the geometry, use spring rates up front around 550 or so lbs. We all seem to gravitate to the Moog 5662- 750-ish lb springs however that may be overkill especially if the rear springs aren't matched to the front. His reasoning, if I've got my facts right, are that in an autocross situation the shocks are doing more of the stabilizing of the vehicle's roll rather than the springs. Think about it this way- in road course driving you go into long sweeping curves so as the spring compresses it has time to build up it's potential and the car settles and stops rolling. In autocross the car jars back and forth quickly so the springs never have time to reach their potential. In this case the shocks will be doing most of the quick back and forth damping to help keep the car from rolling too much. There are lots of options out there for shocks, I'm saving my pennies for the Varishocks he suggested. With those I can dial them in for all types of racing as well as daily driving, and it uses a knob to adjust rather than having to pull the shock out of the car each time a change is in order. Saving is the key word here, they're almost $700 a set. But, he's confident that if I match all the parts much like the cam swap example, my car will kick some tail on the autocross. Hope this info helps with what you guys are doing too.

 

[liquidh8]

I seen the f-body fit flipped over with the ends facing the rear, but for me, with the 9", 3 inch pipes, and the plan for a watts link, they had to face forward. So, I'll have to get out thee and toss the bar on the rear so all can see, but it'll be almost 2 weeks. I have to take a trip to Atlanta for some training so when I get back... 😀

Marc has a wealth of information, he shares it and it's a great starting point. It's hard to get your stuff right till you run it. I used AFCO coils and spring height adjusters for that reason, for quick changes and sring rates in like 25lb-in increments for fine tuning. The springs are decently priced, and resell well. I personally used the MOOG springs first and didn't like them. I also use Bilstien shocks, you get what you pay for I suppose.