8.5 Rearend what is it worth???'#

[scoti]

The malibu runs and drives great now with original 267 V8 engine and th350 transmission,just was going to do a drive train Upgrade but changed my mind

Makes sense. I've had a GN 8.5 w/3.42's in my possession for 25yrs just sitting on a cart & waiting for the right combo/timing. If you popped that rear in the car as-is (w/a OE supplied low power motor & non-OD trans), it's no longer a 2k rpm highway drive.

I have guys asking about mine regularly. They want it for pennies on the dollar because "it's just sitting around". I picked up a 200-4r this year so now it's closer to actually getting used.

 

[Steve 82 Elly]

Dang, if you were closer to Michigan I'd be very interested in making a deal.

 

[pontiacgp]

As long as the seller is factual in the description, how are you getting around it? Sounds like you're going after unscrupulous sellers and tripping them up on false/fraudulent advertising, not the "as is" statement itself.

As is...meaning it's a G-body rear with 3.73 posi gears, which is what I would describe it as if it was a G-body rear with 3.73 posi. As is...meaning you're buying it with any known OR unknown issues at the point of sale. No warranties, expressed or implied. If the ad clearly is marked "as is", if you break an axle 2 miles down the road after you buy it and install it in your car, it's the buyer's problem. At least that's the general consensus of U.S. law. Not sure how that works in Canada.

Now, if the buyer notices that I forgot to toss the drums in the back of the truck when he left, and they were supposed to go with it, I would either send them to him or refund him fair value for the drums. Because I think a sale should be satisfactory to both parties. And because I'd like to think I'm an honest seller and not a rip-off artist. I might have other crap I want to sell, and I don't need to have a rep as a bad seller.

So what, in that description, would be "as isn't"? If it's a true and factual condition description, even Perry Mason wouldn't win against that.

The key is the description, a client purchased a motorcycle that was advertised as a complete rebuild and runs like new. The ad did have "as is" and the sales contract has that phrase as well. The seller owned a small farm so the bike was on dirt and after the buyer test drove it he decided to buy it. After my client had the bike dropped off at his home it had small oil puddles under the bike which he had not started since it was dropped off. He brought the bike into a bike shop who said nearly all the seals needed to be replaced and doubted the engine had been rebuilt. The buyer requested a refund which was refused . At trial the ad was introduced as evidence and the sellers legal rep thought is would be an easy win with the "as is" in the ad. The judge chastised her by asking her what "as is" means. When the legal rep tried to challenge the judge asked her if she could understand that the bike "as is" condition was advertised as complete rebuild like new.

if selling a used rear end with only a description of whar you get but with no mention of the condition of the components then it is incumbent upon the buyer to do a detailed inspection. One other aspect that may imply a warranty is the prices. If the common price for a used rear end is $800 with condition unknown and the seller is asking $1,500 for the rear end that implies the rear end is in good usable shape. One other aspect if the positions of the buyer and seller. If the buyer is knowlegable or an expert concermning the product he/she is buying then they have a higher threshold to prove they were taken advantage of, on the other side if there is major defects in the product of if the seller is knowledgable or an expert on the product it could be viewed that the seller knew or ought to have known about the defect and failed to inform the layperson buying the product.

 

[dickeymoore]

Yep

 

[ck80]

The key is the description, a client purchased a motorcycle that was advertised as a complete rebuild and runs like new. The ad did have "as is" and the sales contract has that phrase as well. The seller owned a small farm so the bike was on dirt and after the buyer test drove it he decided to buy it. After my client had the bike dropped off at his home it had small oil puddles under the bike which he had not started since it was dropped off. He brought the bike into a bike shop who said nearly all the seals needed to be replaced and doubted the engine had been rebuilt. The buyer requested a refund which was refused . At trial the ad was introduced as evidence and the sellers legal rep thought is would be an easy win with the "as is" in the ad. The judge chastised her by asking her what "as is" means. When the legal rep tried to challenge the judge asked her if she could understand that the bike "as is" condition was advertised as complete rebuild like new.

if selling a used rear end with only a description of what you get but with no mention of the condition of the components then it is incumbent upon the buyer to do a detailed inspection. One other aspect that may imply a warranty is the prices. If the common price for a used rear end is $800 with condition unknown and the seller is asking $1,500 for the rear end that implies the rear end is in good usable shape. One other aspect if the positions of the buyer and seller. If the buyer is knowlegable or an expert concermning the product he/she is buying then they have a higher threshold to prove they were taken advantage of, on the other side if there is major defects in the product of if the seller is knowledgable or an expert on the product it could be viewed that the seller knew or ought to have known about the defect and failed to inform the layperson buying the product.

I'll add there are other strategies that have worked for me in the past with clients.

In some jurisdictions here in the US you CANNOT void or disclaim implied warranties, including merchantability or fitness for a particular purpose. In some places writing "as-is" has zero applicability. Depending on circumstances of a transaction, where/how you advertise, you could get sued in that other state even though you think you're under your local laws.

I go look for a trans and say I need it to hold up to track use in a 400hp car, you say it's good for that, you had it built to that level. Turns out it had stock 250hp parts and blows up. I prove the parts wouldn't hold to 400hp, could be you're in trouble depending on the circumstances of advertising and sale. EVEN with as-is.

Other jurisdictions require an acknowledgement in writing, on the face of the sales contract, in the same prominence (and sometimes greater) than the rest of the signed agreement, with and separate signature, waiving any implied or other rights to be effective. Sometime even that needs another acknowledgement of having the right to consult an attorney about ramifications before signing.

There's dozens of things more I had done over the yesrs that worked. People think as-is or caveat emptor covers/saves all, but the reality is it really doesnt.

Whatever you sell, be prepared to stand behind it for what you sold it as, and, save evidence of what people said they wanted/expected. As long as you're willing to back what expectations you can PROVE the buyer represented they had, for the price you're getting, then make the deal. Otherwise, IMO it's foolish the proceed thinking you can hide behind as-is or any other waiver.

 

[pontiacgp]

I'll add there are other strategies that have worked for me in the past with clients.

In some jurisdictions here in the US you CANNOT void or disclaim implied warranties, including merchantability or fitness for a particular purpose. In some places writing "as-is" has zero applicability. Depending on circumstances of a transaction, where/how you advertise, you could get sued in that other state even though you think you're under your local laws.

I go look for a trans and say I need it to hold up to track use in a 400hp car, you say it's good for that, you had it built to that level. Turns out it had stock 250hp parts and blows up. I prove the parts wouldn't hold to 400hp, could be you're in trouble depending on the circumstances of advertising and sale. EVEN with as-is.

Other jurisdictions require an acknowledgement in writing, on the face of the sales contract, in the same prominence (and sometimes greater) than the rest of the signed agreement, with and separate signature, waiving any implied or other rights to be effective. Sometime even that needs another acknowledgement of having the right to consult an attorney about ramifications before signing.

There's dozens of things more I had done over the yesrs that worked. People think as-is or caveat emptor covers/saves all, but the reality is it really doesnt.

Whatever you sell, be prepared to stand behind it for what you sold it as, and, save evidence of what people said they wanted/expected. As long as you're willing to back what expectations you can PROVE the buyer represented they had, for the price you're getting, then make the deal. Otherwise, IMO it's foolish the proceed thinking you can hide behind as-is or any other waiver.

many areas who have small claims court they don't go by all the rules of Civil law. Here in Ontario the small claims court goes by the Civil rules along common law and the law of equity. Regarding the transmission I would have breached a major term the sales agreement if you could prove that conversation took place or it was in writing. If it was oral with no witnesses you would have a difficut time explaining why an detail important to you was not in writing. On the other side of the coin I would have to lie when on stand and I have seen many clients BS story come apart up on stand. The last one I had the case was based on a job for a 3rd party that my client said was never done by the supplier that was suing my client. All the parties has terrible accounting and I couldn't figure out what was paid and not paid, the judge was livid with the accounting. On cross my client was asked if the 3rd party ever paid her for the job and she said yes.... case over...Point being not many people will get on the stand and lie....

 

[kornball426]

Unless you're an expert and can represent yourself, who is going to spend the money paying a lawyer to go to court? And at the end of the day isn't it going to be entirely up to the judge or jury to understand what the hell you're even talking about, to decide the case? Unless the judge is also a car guy (what are the odds), how's he going to know new from used, or high quality parts from junk?

I think my lawyer has a like $600 hourly rate (he worked for me on contingency thankfully, though believe me, it still cost a fortune). My case also took over 8 years to finally settle.

For me, it would have to be a LOT more than just about any rear is worth to make it worth the hassle of going to court over a dispute. A guy I know owes me $3600 bucks, there was a written contract, and I'm still wary of getting the courts involved... And it's very simple, I loaned him money to buy a couple of fridges for his restaurant, he hasn't paid me, he is clearly wrong, he needs to pay me. Nothing ambiguous about it like "as is" or "like new" to be interpreted.

I literally can't imagine showing up and trying to convince a judge something I bought off Craigslist or Facebook or whatever wasn't "accurately advertised". I'm pretty sure you'd get laughed out of court.

 

[ck80]

Unless you're an expert and can represent yourself, who is going to spend the money paying a lawyer to go to court? And at the end of the day isn't it going to be entirely up to the judge or jury to understand what the hell you're even talking about, to decide the case? Unless the judge is also a car guy (what are the odds), how's he going to know new from used, or high quality parts from junk?

I think my lawyer has a like $600 hourly rate (he worked for me on contingency thankfully, though believe me, it still cost a fortune). My case also took over 8 years to finally settle.

For me, it would have to be a LOT more than just about any rear is worth to make it worth the hassle of going to court over a dispute. A guy I know owes me $3600 bucks, there was a written contract, and I'm still wary of getting the courts involved... And it's very simple, I loaned him money to buy a couple of fridges for his restaurant, he hasn't paid me, he is clearly wrong, he needs to pay me. Nothing ambiguous about it like "as is" or "like new" to be interpreted.

I literally can't imagine showing up and trying to convince a judge something I bought off Craigslist or Facebook or whatever wasn't "accurately advertised". I'm pretty sure you'd get laughed out of court.

First firm I worked for used to hire law students under the third year practice act for a few years before I left. They got paid $15/hr.

Firm used them for two things. Either billed em out at $150/hr, or, used hybrid fee agreements where clients paid flat fee for a demand letter, couple hundred bucks, then contingency on small value litigation at 40%.

If you bought a $1500 rear, paid $500 to get it home, thats $2000 PLUS seeking legal fees on top.

On the firm side, you lose legal fees there's still $800 fee. At $15/hr as long as they don't spend over 50 paid hrs on it you come out ahead in a win. AND, the law schools give grants to the firm to hire the kids so it's partly free labor to begin with.

Believe me, they took $900 window installation cases. For a couple grand in dispute, yeah, someone would take it

 

[pontiacgp]

Unless you're an expert and can represent yourself, who is going to spend the money paying a lawyer to go to court? And at the end of the day isn't it going to be entirely up to the judge or jury to understand what the hell you're even talking about, to decide the case? Unless the judge is also a car guy (what are the odds), how's he going to know new from used, or high quality parts from junk?

I think my lawyer has a like $600 hourly rate (he worked for me on contingency thankfully, though believe me, it still cost a fortune). My case also took over 8 years to finally settle.

For me, it would have to be a LOT more than just about any rear is worth to make it worth the hassle of going to court over a dispute. A guy I know owes me $3600 bucks, there was a written contract, and I'm still wary of getting the courts involved... And it's very simple, I loaned him money to buy a couple of fridges for his restaurant, he hasn't paid me, he is clearly wrong, he needs to pay me. Nothing ambiguous about it like "as is" or "like new" to be interpreted.

I literally can't imagine showing up and trying to convince a judge something I bought off Craigslist or Facebook or whatever wasn't "accurately advertised". I'm pretty sure you'd get laughed out of court.

the last $25,000 case I won I requested $5,975.00 in costs on top of the $25,000 judgment. The Judge awarded $5,875.00 in costs. If my client had represented herself she would have been limited to $500 plus disbursements. My fees were less than the amount of costs awarded so my client made money on my representation. To do a case on your own you have to give your testimony without forgetting anything. You don't have any questions to help you calm down and remember what you need to say. Under cross you need to think if there is any objection to raise regarding the question, when you answer you have to think if you answer opened any holes in your case and if it did you have to remember after the cross to speak to all of those issues that hurt your case. I do not suggest anyone to do their own case no matter how experienced you are, unless the case is over a bounced check.

I have done cases regarding purchases over the internet and no judge laughed about it and my clients were happy to win.

I've won a case where my client drove her bicycle into a parked Mercedes and went through the back window, another one I successfully represented a disqualified driver who made a turn left and was struck by a car coming from the other direction going through the intersection. There is alot more to every story than meets the eye

 

[kornball426]

I may get a lawyer involved eventually if I have to. I have a signed agreement, but it wasn't notarized or witnessed unfortunately. Somehow I don't think it's enough to prove anything in court.

My faith in the courts to do anything right is pretty minimal. 😂