Am I the only one who is tired of LS swaps?

[Clone TIE Pilot]

Well there is no denying that LS engines are far superior to their old school counterparts, but I don't think that is the discussion. I think a lot of guys (not necessarily myself) are a little upset that not many people are still building old motors. Everyone goes straight to the LS platform, and it becomes a little boring seeing LS after LS after LS. Not a lot of crazy swaps, or crazy builds on older engines anymore, at least not as much as there used to be. Anymore if you go any buy a 400 horsepower blueprint 383 and put it in, it's just a placeholder engine for an LS. No one wants to mod that engine for power.

I think some of it too, is that LS engines are designed by computer nerds and you have to be one to tune them, along with 100s of dollars of tuning software, and requiring some training on how to do it. A modern PCM has 1,000s of maps and tables to go though to tune the motor correctly, especially if you have any engine mods like a cam swap. Most LS swappers I have seen don't do their own tuning, they just farm it out and often more than once. Then there is the downside that reprograming the computer at all is considered emission tampering and illegal. A inspector can plug into the OBD2 port and test the PCM for reflashing. Then deleting anything is illegal too, can't delete the after cat O2 sensors or the gas tank pressure sensor. Not to mention the huge marketing push to shame older gen motors to stir up LS market sales.

As I said earlier, the internet is different than the real world, just because "everybody" is swapping to LS on the net doesn't mean the same number of people are in the real world. Out in the real world I only seen one LS swapped car.

I think a lot of old school car guys got burnt out on working on cars as well. You can go out and buy something brand new with a warranty that is more powerful and more comfortable than any of the old cars. My dad got like that. And the prices they want for clapped out classics doesn't help matters either.

Exactly, even if you "update" the engine, the rest of the car is still laughable outdated compared to modern cars. G bodies are badly aging platforms with their flimsy and heavy mild steel construction, lack of ABS, traction control, airbags, very very poor suspension geometry, poor HVAC setup, non enhanced EVAP gas tank, tiny rotors, rear drum brakes, outdated rear 4 link suspension, and very flexible frame and body that the bad suspension masks. The majority of Gbodies have weak 7.5 rear axles. Anymore, hotrodding a old car is becoming like shooting yourself in the foot as older platforms are becoming a handicap. The OEM can easily out hotrod us anymore with bone stock new cars, and they do at a ever increasing rate, it is all too easy to get burned out. Hotroding older cars is a niche of the hotroding market which is itself a niche. Hotroding is predominantly about supping up new or newish cars, not playing a endless game of catch up with some long outdated old car model.

 

[CWPottenger]

For me I just don't care one way or the other. I do think it is relatively BS that many just dis SBC, BBC, and every other platform because LS is "so great". Simple realities is that again as in most of these match ups it is not "apples to apples". Any one building an engine for HP is not using factory parts. It does not matter what platform you are building. The only way to compare is New Retail to New Retail prices for every piece of the build to achieve the same HP/TQ levels, and I do mean every piece, every service to get that engine in the car and tuned. Everybody can find that deal or has an inside connection that makes the build cheaper or easier for some then others.
As for the statement our cars are outdated, that is the EXACT point of why we love them, build them, drive them, modify them and do quite frankly anything to our cars is that they are the last GM platform that lends itself well to building any kind of ride you want and to make it "ours" without the need to farm out every little tweak, because some idiots have decided that the ability to have the skill to drive a car is too complex and needs to be slowly stolen from us the end user with multitudes of computer control and system integration. Yes some improvements have helped in reducing fatalities, but driving is a skill that every new generation of vehicles are trying to replace and eliminate.
If we liked what the OEM's produced we would all be the boring cookie cutter mindless sheeple that so many in politics and businesses wish we all were. That is the reason our hobby even exists is because we are NOT...

 

[pontiacgp]

G bodies are badly aging platforms with their flimsy and heavy mild steel construction, lack of ABS, traction control, airbags, very very poor suspension geometry, poor HVAC setup, non enhanced EVAP gas tank, tiny rotors, rear drum brakes, outdated rear 4 link suspension, and very flexible frame and body that the bad suspension masks. The majority of Gbodies have weak 7.5 rear axles..

I think this has been asked before but why do you own a G body?

 

[wonderboy24]

thats why i am keeping it olds. build 403 for me

 

[motorheadmike]

I think this has been asked before but why do you own a G body?

I know, right? Must be fun waking up everyday hating yourself and your car. Helluva paradox.

Right now I am living and breathing LSX performance, buying specialized tools (hard and software), and squeezing easy power out. I am done with SBCs and Buick Turbo V6s, and am in the process of selling it all off, because it is limiting factor. I will say that the future for swaps lies in smaller displacement modern V6s with boost.

 

[jeremyandthemonte]

I think some of it too, is that LS engines are designed by computer nerds and you have to be one to tune them, along with 100s of dollars of tuning software, and requiring some training on how to do it. A modern PCM has 1,000s of maps and tables to go though to tune the motor correctly, especially if you have any engine mods like a cam swap. Most LS swappers I have seen don't do their own tuning, they just farm it out and often more than once. Then there is the downside that reprograming the computer at all is considered emission tampering and illegal. A inspector can plug into the OBD2 port and test the PCM for reflashing. Then deleting anything is illegal too, can't delete the after cat O2 sensors or the gas tank pressure sensor. Not to mention the huge marketing push to shame older gen motors to stir up LS market sales.

As I said earlier, the internet is different than the real world, just because "everybody" is swapping to LS on the net doesn't mean the same number of people are in the real world. Out in the real world I only seen one LS swapped car.


Exactly, even if you "update" the engine, the rest of the car is still laughable outdated compared to modern cars. G bodies are badly aging platforms with their flimsy and heavy mild steel construction, lack of ABS, traction control, airbags, very very poor suspension geometry, poor HVAC setup, non enhanced EVAP gas tank, tiny rotors, rear drum brakes, outdated rear 4 link suspension, and very flexible frame and body that the bad suspension masks. The majority of Gbodies have weak 7.5 rear axles. Anymore, hotrodding a old car is becoming like shooting yourself in the foot as older platforms are becoming a handicap. The OEM can easily out hotrod us anymore with bone stock new cars, and they do at a ever increasing rate, it is all too easy to get burned out. Hotroding older cars is a niche of the hotroding market which is itself a niche. Hotroding is predominantly about supping up new or newish cars, not playing a endless game of catch up with some long outdated old car model.

Coming off oh what you said about hot rodding is and was never about modifying new and new ish cars it started really back in the 1930s-1950s where soldiers would take key word "old" cars and make them faster on the cheap. now the gbody you have to remember was cutting edge around the time it came out. now comparing the gbody to a new car is just kinda dumb in no way shape or form is it going to be able to do what a new z28 can. it is like comparing your young self to you now. any bet the more you aged the more you realized man i am out of date and cant keep up with the younger crowd like i used too. just my 0.2 cents

 

[Garrett1982]

I know, right? Must be fun waking up everyday hating yourself and your car. Helluva paradox.

Right now I am living and breathing LSX performance, buying specialized tools (hard and software), and squeezing easy power out. I am done with SBCs and Buick Turbo V6s, and am in the process of selling it all off, because it is limiting factor. I will say that the future for swaps lies in smaller displacement modern V6s with boost.

I don't know if modern turbo sixes will catch on as far as swaps. I read that GM engineers working on the ATS-V were disappointed they had to use 3.6 TT and couldn't use the new LT1. The lead engineer for the new Ford GT said he recieved a complaint letter from the president of the Ford GT owners club. They weren't happy that a turbo six was being used in place of a V8. The engineer responded that they "are trying to showcase new technology utilized by the company, not appease baby boomer nostalgia". Their hand was probably forced by the bean counters as well.
There might not be any big swaps after the LS/LT, at least not on that level, and it still isn't on the level of the sbc/bbc.
I'm curious when the hardcore brand loyalty started as well? It seems like it would have started in the late 50's, early 60's? I know the early hot rodders were ditching their flatheads for any number of ohv v8's. Don Garlits said he got rid of his flathead in his drag car because his hemi powered tow vehicle had more power in stock form and he made the switch. They were taking the modern technology of the time and putting it into older cars that had already been modified to perform. They didn't want to have their pride and joy that they had put time and money in getting embarrassed by a showroom 55 chevy or Olds 88. In the sixties you could get the cars the way you wanted and the factory engineers did a lot of the hotrodding, kind of like they are doing today. I could see not changing between manufacturers in the sixties and early seventies cars. I'm of the opinion if it wasn't meant for performance, with the exception of the Turbo Buicks, H/O's, and maybe the 442s, that any g-body is open to whatever swap the owner wants to do. They weren't offered with the best engines offered in their day and you got into the "corporate" engine thing. So if the Ls is the modern corporate engine, it shouldn't be a big deal. It was in Pontiacs, Cadillacs, and Buicks. The 80's are probably the only generation of cars that get older engines swapped in.

 

[olds307 and 403]

The G body is an old outdated car, plain and simple, no comparing it to my Challenger. I only own it to run the Olds V8, the most reliable motor from it's era. I have no idea Clone being a Chevy guy, we he doesn't embrace the LS, the SBC's replacement. I personally think GM is behind the Gen 3 Hemi and Ford's Coyote motor. Latest GM commercial showed how they out did Ford, most Horsepower only because the 6.2 from them is much larger. If Ford threw on the DOHC cam head on their 6.2, watch out. Also the 6.2 is now only in big trucks. Most V8 towing, really? The 5L Coyote puts out more torque than the 5.3 LS at a lower rpm, plus 30 hp. I compared the specs of all the trucks, per displacement, Dodge and Ford make more HP and torque than even the new Gen LS motors.

 

[Garrett1982]

All

The G body is an old outdated car, plain and simple, no comparing it to my Challenger. I only own it to run the Olds V8, the most reliable motor from it's era. I have no idea Clone being a Chevy guy, we he doesn't embrace the LS, the SBC's replacement. I personally think GM is behind the Gen 3 Hemi and Ford's Coyote motor. Latest GM commercial showed how they out did Ford, most Horsepower only because the 6.2 from them is much larger. If Ford threw on the DOHC cam head on their 6.2, watch out. Also the 6.2 is now only in big trucks. Most V8 towing, really? The 5L Coyote puts out more torque than the 5.3 LS at a lower rpm. I compared the specs of all the trucks, per displacement, Dodge and Ford make more HP and torque than even the new Gen LS motors.

good points but those engines aren't really being embraced in swaps like the Ls. If you go on LS1tech.com and check out their conversions and hybrids section, there are people swapping LS's into Rams,Lightnings, Dakotas, Cougars, Durangos, crown vics, and countless imports, not just fox bodies. The Hemi is only available in production vehicles with a cast iron block, so that might limit some appeal, and they are both wide engines, limiting space. Coyote Mustangs are popular tho. There are 3 different ones withing a few block radius of me that all look the same. Black on black with drag radials. And some of you are sick of seeing LS swaps. Haha

 

[olds307 and 403]

I agree on their size plus the Hemi's cast iron block. Part of the reason for the SBC in everything was those same reasons, narrow and light for 50's V8's. I have to admit the new 4.3 V6 truck motor is the best NA V6 with 300+ ft/lbs.