Build A Hellcat Eater
- Thread starter Speedman87
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there is alot more of us than you think there is. If I had to pay someone to build a car just so I can beat my chest I'd be ashamed of myself
Apparently, this guy hasn't read build threads. I don't necessarily agree with some, but the GBF members have some awesome build threads, hands down.
I am really glad I found this thread. The Interesting is that I am actually threatening to base a youtube channel around this exact concept, and that was the goal with my current build.
Beat a Hellcat for under 15k, which is approximately 20% of the cost.
Having owned a slew of modern muscle, starting with a 6 speed Challenger Core, traded in on a 2011 shelby gt500, traded in on a 2015 ram express black 8 speed (that got modded), traded in on a Scat Pack Charger, I understand and appreciate the modern power and technology, but its not my favorite. These modern cars have all lost quite a bit of the driver connection, which is deeply important to me.
When I had my shelby, it was at the top of my attainable dream car list. the 2007 gt500 came out when I was in law school, and I was smitten, and I had just had to go through the heartbreak of parting out the monte I built in high school with my dad, that was chronicled back in the original montelist e-mail list days, to buy books for school. That was very difficult for me. But when I saw the new GT500, I was sold. Then, after I got my first baller corproate gig, they redid the lines for 2010, and it was even better. Then in 2011, they dropped 300 lbs from the whole car, and in my opinion, the 2011-2014 GT500s are the zenith for the mustang thus far (not a fan of the new ones). I purchased a 94 trans am GT non-T-top to keep the miles off the shelby. It was mostly stock, had some midlength hooker headers on it, a CAI, and it was a 3.42 T56 car. What I realized through alternating routinely between that car and the Shelby, was that as impressive of a car as the Shelby was, and as mindblowing as the performance was, I was actually getting a better driving experience out of the Trans Am. I really couldnt shake this.
Fast forward to the Scat Pack Charger. Bone stock, I was putting the car in drive, and running a 12.4 @117 at the track just rolling into the throttle on the last yellow. Every single time. it has paddles, it took me a while to master them, but they were actually pretty good, if I launched perfectly, and did everything right with the paddles (which was rare), I was able to run a best of a 12.2 (which was actually better than I was able to do in my shelby with 600 less lbs., and about 110 more hp to the tire. Very tricky to launch). But the Charger was relying even more on the technology for the performance, and I could feel it. I no longer felt like I was driving the car. It felt like a tesla with a soundtrack. The power steering seemed well weighted, but as time went on, I realized it was more of a trick, the brakes had 0 feel at all, they were just an on off switch. It was boring. a 500 horsepower hemi with an awesome 8 speed automatic, and it was truly boring.
Enter my newest project, my 84 SS. This thing leaked and consumed 2-3 quarts of oil a week, it had a 3 speed auto with 3.73 gears in it, the stance is perfect but was achieved through cutting and blowtorching springs, but the car was organic. It was me driving it, me doing the work. So I hatched a scheme. I am going to build this Monte Carlo to outperform a hellcat, and keep as much sensation as possible in the driving experience.
Compromise number 1. Most of what makes these modern cars so fast, is that everybody has embraced boost. There isnt a way around it, there are limits to the amounts of efficiency we can get out of a naturally aspirated motor. Boost is the great equalizer. Unfortunately it is also a sensation deadener. My GT500 was way faster than my best friends LS3 Z51 C6, but his car felt way better. My solution for this? Big cubic inches, restrictive intake and TB. L29, sequential EFI, stock intake, a cam that is boost friendly that will move the power peak up to around 5200-5400 rpms, shifting at 5500, and a redline at 5800 should keep this engine alive forever.
Compromise number 2. Auto trans. I dont think that the car as a system would work as well with a T56, even though I strongly considered it, and I have a SSM clutch pedal setup ready to go in the car. Automatics are faster and more responsive with boost. Torque converters, especially big heavy 4L80E torque converters provide lots of resistance for a turbo to spool against.
Otherwise, after I already started on this project, Richard Holdener started messing around with Gen Vi bbc's. He is literally testing all of the parts I had picked out for this, and it is nice to see because he is getting tremendous results. I will be restricting this motor intentionally to around 715 crank hp, which is probably the limit of the 80 lb. injectors and single LPH inline fuel pump I am using, but what I will end up with is a 3700 and changeish (ultimately I'd like to get it back down to 3600 through some carefully thought out weight savings) lb. car with hellcat power, in a car that weighs the same as a modern ZL1 camaro, with the stock stall converter and some decent tires, it should be relatively simple to launch this thing out of boost, and then get into boost by the 60 foot mark. In a sleeper, that will provide modern power, but old school feel. If I actually do end up making a channel about it, I'll post it here. It is definately doable to compete with the modern muscle, and not spend a fortune to do it.
Beat a Hellcat for under 15k, which is approximately 20% of the cost.
Having owned a slew of modern muscle, starting with a 6 speed Challenger Core, traded in on a 2011 shelby gt500, traded in on a 2015 ram express black 8 speed (that got modded), traded in on a Scat Pack Charger, I understand and appreciate the modern power and technology, but its not my favorite. These modern cars have all lost quite a bit of the driver connection, which is deeply important to me.
When I had my shelby, it was at the top of my attainable dream car list. the 2007 gt500 came out when I was in law school, and I was smitten, and I had just had to go through the heartbreak of parting out the monte I built in high school with my dad, that was chronicled back in the original montelist e-mail list days, to buy books for school. That was very difficult for me. But when I saw the new GT500, I was sold. Then, after I got my first baller corproate gig, they redid the lines for 2010, and it was even better. Then in 2011, they dropped 300 lbs from the whole car, and in my opinion, the 2011-2014 GT500s are the zenith for the mustang thus far (not a fan of the new ones). I purchased a 94 trans am GT non-T-top to keep the miles off the shelby. It was mostly stock, had some midlength hooker headers on it, a CAI, and it was a 3.42 T56 car. What I realized through alternating routinely between that car and the Shelby, was that as impressive of a car as the Shelby was, and as mindblowing as the performance was, I was actually getting a better driving experience out of the Trans Am. I really couldnt shake this.
Fast forward to the Scat Pack Charger. Bone stock, I was putting the car in drive, and running a 12.4 @117 at the track just rolling into the throttle on the last yellow. Every single time. it has paddles, it took me a while to master them, but they were actually pretty good, if I launched perfectly, and did everything right with the paddles (which was rare), I was able to run a best of a 12.2 (which was actually better than I was able to do in my shelby with 600 less lbs., and about 110 more hp to the tire. Very tricky to launch). But the Charger was relying even more on the technology for the performance, and I could feel it. I no longer felt like I was driving the car. It felt like a tesla with a soundtrack. The power steering seemed well weighted, but as time went on, I realized it was more of a trick, the brakes had 0 feel at all, they were just an on off switch. It was boring. a 500 horsepower hemi with an awesome 8 speed automatic, and it was truly boring.
Enter my newest project, my 84 SS. This thing leaked and consumed 2-3 quarts of oil a week, it had a 3 speed auto with 3.73 gears in it, the stance is perfect but was achieved through cutting and blowtorching springs, but the car was organic. It was me driving it, me doing the work. So I hatched a scheme. I am going to build this Monte Carlo to outperform a hellcat, and keep as much sensation as possible in the driving experience.
Compromise number 1. Most of what makes these modern cars so fast, is that everybody has embraced boost. There isnt a way around it, there are limits to the amounts of efficiency we can get out of a naturally aspirated motor. Boost is the great equalizer. Unfortunately it is also a sensation deadener. My GT500 was way faster than my best friends LS3 Z51 C6, but his car felt way better. My solution for this? Big cubic inches, restrictive intake and TB. L29, sequential EFI, stock intake, a cam that is boost friendly that will move the power peak up to around 5200-5400 rpms, shifting at 5500, and a redline at 5800 should keep this engine alive forever.
Compromise number 2. Auto trans. I dont think that the car as a system would work as well with a T56, even though I strongly considered it, and I have a SSM clutch pedal setup ready to go in the car. Automatics are faster and more responsive with boost. Torque converters, especially big heavy 4L80E torque converters provide lots of resistance for a turbo to spool against.
Otherwise, after I already started on this project, Richard Holdener started messing around with Gen Vi bbc's. He is literally testing all of the parts I had picked out for this, and it is nice to see because he is getting tremendous results. I will be restricting this motor intentionally to around 715 crank hp, which is probably the limit of the 80 lb. injectors and single LPH inline fuel pump I am using, but what I will end up with is a 3700 and changeish (ultimately I'd like to get it back down to 3600 through some carefully thought out weight savings) lb. car with hellcat power, in a car that weighs the same as a modern ZL1 camaro, with the stock stall converter and some decent tires, it should be relatively simple to launch this thing out of boost, and then get into boost by the 60 foot mark. In a sleeper, that will provide modern power, but old school feel. If I actually do end up making a channel about it, I'll post it here. It is definately doable to compete with the modern muscle, and not spend a fortune to do it.
This^^^^
I've had to drive the wife's BMW X3 for the last 2 months, just got my jetta back on the road. Even though the X3 is all wheel drive, I am way more comfortable driving my jetta in the snow and ice. With manual steering to boot, I can really feel when things get slippery. In the X3, I only knew I was on ice when the car would start doing a dance down the road cuz of the traction control. Sure that dance was keeping me on the road, but it was also keeping my knuckles white as the snowbank I was afraid of plowing into.
My awd Hemi Charger was better, but still not the same as something more mechanical.
It's just his witty sarcasm. He's Canadian. He can't help it.
You mean a liar? What do you actually like ambulance chasers down there?😁
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