i can understand keepin ur buick all buick but if cost is an issue just use the sbc there a great motor and cost friendly for hp. Whether chevy,buick or pontiac there is always a chance it will blow up if your buildin it to beat it. and as far as buick and pontiacs being stronger that has not been my experience at all and i have had quite a few.
Chevy smallblock vs Buick smallblock
- Thread starter loneSTRregal
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Well, I would love to hear your stories about that! Everyone I have ever known who rebuilds their own stuff (not having someone at a shop do it for them) has had the same experience as I have.
You tear down your chevy small block and do all the measurements. If the block was made roughly between 1973 and 1987 there is a great chance that every tolerance is so loose that it has to take a trip to the machine shop. I have had some older chevy stuff from the 60's that wasn't like that and some of the last fuel injected stuff from 87 and up that has been somewhat better about it, but the majority of what we got or sourced at the wrecking yard was in need of a full work-up. Now, if you are one of the guys that MUST take every engine you tear down to the machine shop, then we can stop here. If you do that to everything, then yes they are all the same and our conflict ends there.
I don't do that. I re-use everything possible because I am always on a severe budget. That doesn't mean that I don't want to be fast or reliable. I do; but I must use the best of what I have and keep the machine work to a minimum. From this aspect, the Buick, Olds, and Pontiac (and even Cadillac) stuff far surpasses the recycled chevy stuff that I come across. I have torn down Buick and Olds engines with hundreds of thousands of miles, found a little ridge at the top of the bore, and been able to re-use the block as is, withing factory spec. Not just once, but nearly every time. I say nearly, because usually if someone has since RE-MACHINED the block for someone, it is usually in trouble. Lots of machine shops think all GMs are chevy so they don't machine them properly. Not all, but many do.
I will do all assembly and prep possible right in my garage. From this standpoint, I cannot afford to build small block chevy engines. By the time they come from the machine shop, the block, crank and rods in the short block alone have busted my budget more times than not. Most of my Buick or Olds stuff that I have built was able to go back into service with just an overhaul kit. Sometimes a little emery paper on the crank, but not much! The rods are stronger from stock and so are the cranks and even the pistons.
The cylinder blocks and heads of Buick and Olds engines tend to made of higher nickel alloy castings. That makes them less prone to cracked heads (a chevy achilles heel) and cracked blocks. It also means you can run unleaded fuel in them without cutting the heads for seats that fall out (another chevy problem) with little or no side effects. The cranks tend to be made of nodular iron or forged steel so they are plenty strong as well. Ever wonder the REAL reason that the chevy block has 5 bolts per head? The truth is scarier than the fiction that it is a better design. It had to be that way because the block warps more under high heat. The magic 5th bolt keeps it together under the stress that it undergoes. That is also part of the reason that they always need bored from being out-of-round when they are torn down. Uneven torque spacing and lower nickel content ensure that it makes it past the warranty period, but not past the machine shop at overhaul.
Now, there certainly were "problem" engines associated with the B-O-P family, but they are the exception rather than the rule. The 265/301 for Pontiac, and the 307 for Olds certainly produced a few bad stories. But I think they are the fewer than more. For Chevy, I can flip that and give stories of the "good" ones, and then use the "rod through the side of the block" story for most of the rest.
Which ones of your many Buicks did you have the problems with at rebuild time? Maybe we can help so that it doesn't repeat itself or maybe I will learn something...
You tear down your chevy small block and do all the measurements. If the block was made roughly between 1973 and 1987 there is a great chance that every tolerance is so loose that it has to take a trip to the machine shop. I have had some older chevy stuff from the 60's that wasn't like that and some of the last fuel injected stuff from 87 and up that has been somewhat better about it, but the majority of what we got or sourced at the wrecking yard was in need of a full work-up. Now, if you are one of the guys that MUST take every engine you tear down to the machine shop, then we can stop here. If you do that to everything, then yes they are all the same and our conflict ends there.
I don't do that. I re-use everything possible because I am always on a severe budget. That doesn't mean that I don't want to be fast or reliable. I do; but I must use the best of what I have and keep the machine work to a minimum. From this aspect, the Buick, Olds, and Pontiac (and even Cadillac) stuff far surpasses the recycled chevy stuff that I come across. I have torn down Buick and Olds engines with hundreds of thousands of miles, found a little ridge at the top of the bore, and been able to re-use the block as is, withing factory spec. Not just once, but nearly every time. I say nearly, because usually if someone has since RE-MACHINED the block for someone, it is usually in trouble. Lots of machine shops think all GMs are chevy so they don't machine them properly. Not all, but many do.
I will do all assembly and prep possible right in my garage. From this standpoint, I cannot afford to build small block chevy engines. By the time they come from the machine shop, the block, crank and rods in the short block alone have busted my budget more times than not. Most of my Buick or Olds stuff that I have built was able to go back into service with just an overhaul kit. Sometimes a little emery paper on the crank, but not much! The rods are stronger from stock and so are the cranks and even the pistons.
The cylinder blocks and heads of Buick and Olds engines tend to made of higher nickel alloy castings. That makes them less prone to cracked heads (a chevy achilles heel) and cracked blocks. It also means you can run unleaded fuel in them without cutting the heads for seats that fall out (another chevy problem) with little or no side effects. The cranks tend to be made of nodular iron or forged steel so they are plenty strong as well. Ever wonder the REAL reason that the chevy block has 5 bolts per head? The truth is scarier than the fiction that it is a better design. It had to be that way because the block warps more under high heat. The magic 5th bolt keeps it together under the stress that it undergoes. That is also part of the reason that they always need bored from being out-of-round when they are torn down. Uneven torque spacing and lower nickel content ensure that it makes it past the warranty period, but not past the machine shop at overhaul.
Now, there certainly were "problem" engines associated with the B-O-P family, but they are the exception rather than the rule. The 265/301 for Pontiac, and the 307 for Olds certainly produced a few bad stories. But I think they are the fewer than more. For Chevy, I can flip that and give stories of the "good" ones, and then use the "rod through the side of the block" story for most of the rest.
Which ones of your many Buicks did you have the problems with at rebuild time? Maybe we can help so that it doesn't repeat itself or maybe I will learn something...
I was just stating my opinion and experiences, i am not looking to offend or get into a pissing contest. I had 7 mid 70 to 81 trans ams with 400's , 403's, 1 even had a 455 olds in it which went pretty good. a gp with a 301 and 2 regals a 307 and the other with a chevy 305. the pontiac 400's i came to find had wrist pin and oil pressure issues (well 2 of them) the 403 was just anemic. had a 70 formula 400 that burned more oil than fuel but never lost its power.i had a 71 buick 350 that the crank cracked in half. 301s are 301s junk to me. i dont knock any of them just have had just as good if not better luck with my sbc's . I will certainly agree that there were sbc in certain years when it seems gms quality control was off. listen i love them all i just feel if he has a good sbc in the car that just needs to be freshened up it was probably the cheapest route. i only cared to tear down one of the trans am 400s and sold it afterward.I have not dissassembled any buick motors so if you say they are quality after doing so i believe it. But i will stand with my choice of sbc because i have built them and beat the snot out of em and had good luck. i am looking at it through my experiences not stories from others, because we all have heard a ton of negative stories about all of them. as i said your comments make it sound like i offended you or was lying i have owned a lot of vehicles and was just basing on that.
The last three sbc's I've built never seen a machine shop. All the clearances were fine, just honed them to clean up a little rust from sitting. There's is no reason to even bother arguing about what is better, everyone has their opinion and nothing will change that.
As far as how annoying this is. Seeing the japanese motor in a malibu would be less annoying than listening to the whining, and it isn't even relevant to the camparisons that I've made before. Buick in a Chevy, Chevy in a Buick, doesn't bother me a bit, they came from the same manufacturer. Japanese in a GM, that's a little different.
As far as my chevy being boring, anyone that's been in the car has never thought that, lol.
I've said it before but damn if it don't seem like the majority of you're posts(KrisW) is just to b*tch about someone putting a chevy in something. How many times have you or anybody on this site seen me b*tch about a buick, olds, pontiac, or caddy going into anything? It really seems that you have the problem, i'm just tired of hearing it.
I'm on here to talk about cars, have some fun, help people when I can, and maybe meet some people that I enjoy talking to.
I'm usually a very non-confrontational person, but when it seems that someone comes on here just to bash, I tend to speak up.
As far as how annoying this is. Seeing the japanese motor in a malibu would be less annoying than listening to the whining, and it isn't even relevant to the camparisons that I've made before. Buick in a Chevy, Chevy in a Buick, doesn't bother me a bit, they came from the same manufacturer. Japanese in a GM, that's a little different.
As far as my chevy being boring, anyone that's been in the car has never thought that, lol.
I've said it before but damn if it don't seem like the majority of you're posts(KrisW) is just to b*tch about someone putting a chevy in something. How many times have you or anybody on this site seen me b*tch about a buick, olds, pontiac, or caddy going into anything? It really seems that you have the problem, i'm just tired of hearing it.
I'm on here to talk about cars, have some fun, help people when I can, and maybe meet some people that I enjoy talking to.
I'm usually a very non-confrontational person, but when it seems that someone comes on here just to bash, I tend to speak up.
I'm not here to bash; I'm sorry if anyone took it that way.
I am offering my advice as to the question at hand, which is what all of us are doing. I am addressing concerns that someone may have if they comment on a problem that a Buick engine may have or that they have seen.
I may be a little more confrontational than the average person, its true, but that is who I am. I promise you that I am not on here to bash people. I love these old cars and I would like to see as many on the road as possible; in my heart I love the machinery of the old engines as well. I would love to see as many of the Buick, Olds, Pontiac and Cadillac V8s continuing down the road as possible. Its more than just a personal preference, as it was a large part of my life before I came over here as a contractor. Now, this is all I have for working on them. So I may be a little over zealous when defending my beliefs or experiences, but I think that is a good thing!
Let's take this back to the beginning. The original question is what the guy will do, use a chevy small block or a Buick V8. I have made my case according to what it sounds like the poster wants to do. As soon as I hear the word budget, I am in gear and moving forward because that is the only way I do things. I do get tired of hearing that the chevy is better for the budget because that hasn't been my experience. I have built many cars, and all of them were on a budget. I'm just trying to share what I have done to keep the engine part of our hobby alive for a long time to come. Alternative engines can be fun and a great way to really dig in and learn something, which presumably everybody is here to do in one form or another.
Hope this clears up any issues anyone might have with me or Buick engines!
I am offering my advice as to the question at hand, which is what all of us are doing. I am addressing concerns that someone may have if they comment on a problem that a Buick engine may have or that they have seen.
I may be a little more confrontational than the average person, its true, but that is who I am. I promise you that I am not on here to bash people. I love these old cars and I would like to see as many on the road as possible; in my heart I love the machinery of the old engines as well. I would love to see as many of the Buick, Olds, Pontiac and Cadillac V8s continuing down the road as possible. Its more than just a personal preference, as it was a large part of my life before I came over here as a contractor. Now, this is all I have for working on them. So I may be a little over zealous when defending my beliefs or experiences, but I think that is a good thing!
Let's take this back to the beginning. The original question is what the guy will do, use a chevy small block or a Buick V8. I have made my case according to what it sounds like the poster wants to do. As soon as I hear the word budget, I am in gear and moving forward because that is the only way I do things. I do get tired of hearing that the chevy is better for the budget because that hasn't been my experience. I have built many cars, and all of them were on a budget. I'm just trying to share what I have done to keep the engine part of our hobby alive for a long time to come. Alternative engines can be fun and a great way to really dig in and learn something, which presumably everybody is here to do in one form or another.
Hope this clears up any issues anyone might have with me or Buick engines!
Our Olds powered cars have always out lasted anything we had with a sbc. I have seen low mile sbc burn cams, puff blue smoke their whole life and blow up before 300,000 km. Our stock Olds mechanically were flawless, for many miles. Our 75 Cutlass with the 350 rocket got the bag drove off it. I have had endless cooling problems with my performance 403. The block had only a tiny ridge and only crank was damaged despite massive, multiple over heatings. I have the cooling issues fixed, my cheapo rebuild has held up fine. My car has been disappointing at the track, due to traction issues and pathetic gearing. It is very fun on the street, 3.42's and M/T will fix it quick. I agree the sbc was decent early on and much better once the 80's arrived. People seem to forget issues like the first sbc 350's breaking cranks from the factory. Keep doing your sbc swaps, leaves dirt cheap cores for the rest of us. My brother law unloaded his 94 4x4 to me, due to a lack of good 350 sbc's at the junk yards.
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