CUTLASS Cutlass excessive cranking before cold start

[studer]

Having an issue with my Cutlass where it takes an excessive amount of cranks to start when cold. The vehicle is a 1982 Cutlass Supreme 4.4L (267 SBC). When the car is cold (I just mean not having ran for a day or a week, not freezing cold temps), it's really hard to start. It always does start, but it usually takes a lot of cranks, something like this:

1. Turn ignition on
2. Press gas pedal 2-3 times
3. Crank engine 4-5 times
4. Press gas pedal another 2-3 times
5. Crank engine 4-5 times
6. Press gas pedal another 2-3 times
7. Crank engine 4-5 times, almost starts
8. Press gas pedal another 2-3 times
9. Crank engine 4-5 times, usually starts this time

This tells me my battery is fine, which it should be, cause it's new and has never been drained badly. But when the engine is warm, it starts absolutely immediately -- like faster than many EFI vehicles I've had. This tells me the starter is fine. This is my first vehicle that doesn't have MPFI, so all this carb stuff is pretty new to me. If someone knowledgeable could point me in the right direction, that would be great. My guess is it has something to do with the automatic choke, or whatever the technical term is for it. But I'm pretty much a beginner when it comes to SBC's. Thanks in advance for the help!

 

[olds307 and 403]

Your choke needs reset. It should be a non CCC Dualjet with electric choke. The coils can go bad but there probably just isn't enough tension on the coil. Press the gas to engage the choke. There are 3 screws on the passenger side holding the coil, just slightly loosen them and turn the coil counter clockwise to increase tension. You want pretty good tension when pushing on the chop flap. This is pic from National carb of what should be your exact carb, 81-82 267 Dualjet.

 

[Clone TIE Pilot]

Some of the issue is modern gas, it evaporates easier which empities the fuel bowl in as little as a day causing hard starts. Modern gasoline is not designed for carburetors like older gasolines were in the past.

 

[studer]

Some of issue is modern gas, it evaporates easier which empities the fuel bowl in as little as a day causing hard starts. Modern gasoline is not designed for carburetors like older gasolines were in the past.

Thanks. Since I live on a farm and have many small engines I have started to take stock of E0 fuel in my area. Would switching my Cutlass from 87 E10 to 91 E0 make much of an impact with this?

 

[studer]

Your choke needs reset. It should be a non CCC Dualjet with electric choke. The coils can go bad but there probably just isn't enough tension on the coil. Press the gas to engage the choke. There are 3 screws on the passenger side holding the coil, just slightly loosen them and turn the coil counter clockwise to increase tension. You want pretty good tension when pushing on the chop flap. This is pic from National carb of what should be your exact carb, 81-82 267 Dualjet.
View attachment 233089

Thanks for this. I am very new with carbs so when I'm in the garage later today I'll take some photos and make sure my carb looks exactly like the one on the national carb website, that you have in the pic.

So basically the gas needs to be to the floor for this whole adjustment period?

 

[studer]

Ok so I took some photos and did confirm this is the carb you mentioned, it's the non-CCC Dualjet.

Just want to be sure of how to reset/adjust the choke here. So I loosen the three phillips screws (circled in red) and then the black plastic cap (green arrow) is supposed to be able to rotate independently of the steel frame (yellow arrow) it's screwed into? And this is to be done engine off, ignition on, and with the gas pedal pressed to the floor?

edit: Complete off-topic tangent here, but I'm confused. I thought every 1981 and newer G-body had a CCC. Having a CCC was, from my research, the main reason not to remove the host of emissions stuff in these engines. I am not going to be putting money into an aftermarket carb for this 267, but if I don't have to replace components to be able to remove emissions lines, canisters, etc, I may go ahead and do that. My previous research told me that if you wanted to remove the emissions from these cars, you'd have to also replace the carb to be a pre-CCC carb, etc etc, lots of other things need replacing for the vehicle to run properly without emissions. But if it's not a CCC, then can't I just remove emissions without other supporting mods?

 

[MrSony]

When it's cold, open the throttle and see if the choke snaps shut, and then see if it has a spring to it and springs shut when you open the flap. Then test for a good accelerator pump shot. Look down the carb and pump the throttle. You should get at least 3-5 good shots of fuel before the accelerator pump well runs dry, it's kind of like a tiny fuel bowl specifically for the accelerator pump. Then check for12v when the car is finally running at the choke wire. Then check and see if the choke opens up fully. If all those above checks out, then report back.

 

[Clone TIE Pilot]

Thanks. Since I live on a farm and have many small engines I have started to take stock of E0 fuel in my area. Would switching my Cutlass from 87 E10 to 91 E0 make much of an impact with this?

It might help some but modern gas just doesn't have the additives in it anymore to prevent flash evaporation to help control hard starting and vapor lock. One expensive option is to replace the mechanical fuel pump with an electric in tank pump and wire it to prime the fuel system before you crank.

Another test for the accel pump is to manually depress the plunger all the way down with your finger and release it. The accel pump plunger should instantly snap back up. If it sticks and slow to return up you have a swollen accel pump seal.

 

[olds307 and 403]

You only need to pump the gas to set the choke. Otherwise the choke plate doesn't completely close and fast idle doesn't engage. The accelerator pump and 12 volts checks are also good.

 

[bracketchev1221]

I agree, check the choke, and make sure the carb has gas. The carb may have a body plug leak that allows the bowl to empty while the car sits and you are cranking to refill the carb.