CUTLASS Cutlass excessive cranking before cold start

[studer]

Yeah, the inline pump on a toggle switch may fix the issue. You can just try and replace the voltage regulator in that alternator. The Remy reman are refurbished in Mexico. I got a 100 amp CS130 for my 88 Cutlass. It lasted a year, Canadian Tire couldn't find me replacement. They actually got me a 95 amp 12SI Wilson reman, it was POS, I should have taken it back. Wilson stuff used to be good. If you are planning any sort of stereo or other electrical upgrades, a 95 amp 12SI is a good idea. The 83 and up had the 12SI 95 amp as an option, will bolt right in place of your current alternator. You car probably has a 63 amp 10SI. They don't cool as well or last a long time when upgraded to higher amp output. Most aftermarket chrome alternators are based on the inferior 10SI case.

Thanks for this info.

For the fuel issue: Do you happen to know if these kinds of inline electric pumps allow fuel to pass freely through when they're not powered? I will also reach out to the manufacturer and see what they have to say about it.
For the alternator issue: I am not really planning any major stereo or electrical upgrades. But I am always interested in at least a slight increase in alternator max output, just in case I do add something.

They don't cool as well or last a long time when upgraded to higher amp output

When you say that, do you mean alternators, including the 12si case, don't cool well or last as long when they're higher output? I assume you mean specifically the 10si case does not handle higher outputs well?

Just looking at the 1983 options on RockAuto, it seems like the "base" alternator went from a 10si 63 amp in 1982 to a 12si 78 amp, and then there is that higher output option for a 12si 94 amp. 78 amps is already a 24% increase over 63 amps, and 94 amps is a 49% increase. If I opt for a 94 amp, would I not have to upgrade some of the wiring from the alternator to accommodate the new higher output? From some quick online searches, it seems the 78 amp may be quite a bit easier to source locally, and a lot cheaper lol.

 

[studer]

I am also now trying to figure out what alternator I actually have, as the label makes me think it's not the 63 amp. From the photos below, it looks like an 85 amp alternator, may have been some sort of "heavy duty" option, I'm not sure on what options were available though. I tried searching the D1647 part number (at least I think that's what it says) on the bottom right of the label, also couldn't cross reference that with any certainty. The other part number on the alternator label seems to be A-151 or A-_151, there's a black mark that may be covering a digit. If that digit exists, I think it's also a 1, so that would make the part number A-1151. I did cross reference A-1151 to this listing on the Dixie website (link: https://www.dixie-electric.com/catalogue/unit.asp?Num_Dix=7134103). This looks like an 85 amp alternator that was offered on several GM vehicles of the same time, and did come on an Olds with a 231 V6 from 1981-82 but was also on a few Buicks from 1981-82 with the same 267 V8 that I have. So my best guess is that the previous owner found an OEM-style upgrade that they wanted and opted for this 85 amp one. But this 85 amp alternator on my vehicle looks like that 10si case that you mentioned above? If the 12si case is better, a 78 amp or 94 amp 12si might be a better option. I would then just have to hope that my existing alternator belt will be the right length.

edit: I may also be insane, and the alternator I have in my car now (and the one on the dixie website linked above) might be a 12si case already? I am not an expert in alternator identification, I can see that.

 

[olds307 and 403]

That is a 10SI fan, probably on the back too. That looks like an upgraded 10SI. I only had one chrome upgraded 10SI alternator last more than a year or two. It claimed 100 amps but probably put out about what your 85 amp did. You could try a new voltage regulator, not hard to change. Or get the 78 amp 12SI replacement, your call.

 

[studer]

Well my alternator replacement did not go as planned. Found a reman Remy 20260 at my local PartSource in Edmonton. It's the standard 78 amp model from the 1983 Cutlass with the updated 12si case. Figured that would be quicker than sourcing a rebuild kit for my existing alternator (don't even know which rebuild kit I'd ask for locally, if I was going to actually rebuild it instead of just replacing the voltage regulator). Got it home and noticed some issues during install. Photos at the end for documentation.

1. The sticker says it's a 78 amp alternator but that it maxes out at 94 amps. Bit of a weird coincidence considering the "high output" alternator option for 1983 is 94 amps.
2. The spacer that my existing alternator used on the lower bolt doesn't line up to anything useful on the new alternator. The spacer still 'spaces' on the long lower bolt, but the metal bar with the bolt hole that goes to the back of the alternator doesn't line up with anything useful on the new one. This is shown in the pics below.
3. The spacing between the bolts is smaller on the new alternator than the old/existing one. So it doesn't bolt up. I checked the top alternator bracket (where the top bolt slides to adjust belt tension) to see if it could be loosened, rotated downward (counter clockwise), and then tightened in place. Doesn't seem like that's an option based on how it's bolted to the engine. This is also shown in pics below.

So I think there are three possible explanations here. Either (1) the 1982 Cutlass has a different alternator bolt hole spacing than a 1983 Cutlass and the alternators can't be swapped between these years, or (2) my alternator is not the stock bolt hole spacing for this vintage of SBC and somewhere along the line the previous owner(s) installed a different alternator bracket to accommodate a differently sized alternator, or (3) this specific Remy 20260 doesn't have the proper bolt hole spacing compared to what the typical SBC alternators should be. And I have no idea which of the three is true.

I checked the Remy website to see if they published physical specs of the cases, like the bolt hole spacing, and it doesn't seem like it. I measured the distance between the two mounting bolts on each alternator:

• Existing/old alternator: approx 188 mm
• Remy 20260 alternator: approx 170 mm

I'm sure these measurements are a bit off cause I'm eyeballing with a tape measure, but it's basically a 14-18 mm difference in the bolt spacing, definitely not something I can "make work" if the brackets aren't adjustable lol. Maybe the bottom bracket is adjustable? I'm not sure, I haven't looked at that bracket closely. At this point, it may just be easier to rebuild my existing alternator. I'd like to call around some local part stores to see what kind of rebuild kit they have in stock, but with the case not being the same size as the one from the parts store, I now also am worried that any rebuild kit I buy, wouldn't have the correct internal parts to rebuild the existing alternator on my car. I may just order a voltage regulator from RockAuto, but that takes about a week to get here. I'll check if any local parts stores have a VR in stock. I believe I'd be looking for a Standard Motor Products VR111 or VR111T.

1. NEW ALTERNATOR INFO AND LABELS:

EXISTING SPACER DOESN'T FIT THE SAME:

3. BOLT HOLE SPACING IS DIFFERENT:

 

[olds307 and 403]

Obviously different. I have seen different clocking, must be different size cases as well.

 

[ELCAM]

Looks like your original alternator is the heavy duty optional one. Try a REMY 20239.

 

[studer]

Looks like your original alternator is the heavy duty optional one. Try a REMY 20239.

Would the 20239 have a different mounting bolt sizing/spacing than the 20039? That would seem weird to me, but I'm not an expert on this lol

 

[ELCAM]

The tension bracket ear is about 1/2" longer and the boss for that bolt is in the right place on the back. Also note the additional cooling holes in the back like your original alternator.

90 something percent of the Chevy's had the same alternators, the optional one is different and also uses different bracketry but it is uncommon.

 

[studer]

The tension bracket ear is about 1/2" longer and the boss for that bolt is in the right place on the back. Also note the additional cooling holes in the back like your original alternator.

90 something percent of the Chevy's had the same alternators, the optional one is different and also uses different bracketry but it is uncommon.

View attachment 233314

Yeah the 20239 you pictured is definitely much more of a match to my existing alternator. I also found the Remy 22100 on RockAuto, which is the 85 amp version. It seems to have the same layout as the 20239 and would match my current alternator output. Although I doubt I'd notice any difference moving down from 85 amps to 78 amps. The issue is neither 22100 nor 20239 are available locally for me, so I'll have to shop around and see what I can find. I don't love ordering things from RockAuto when I'm unsure of fitment, because returns to RA are prohibitively expensive from here in Canada.

edit: Looks like I'm confusing alternator outputs here. The 20239 is only 70 amps, the 22100 is indeed 85 amps. I'm not sure if I'd notice the difference between the two. I do not currently have subs or a real audio system. Only major electrical addition that I could see myself doing is an audio system with a 10" sub, nothing crazy in terms of power/watts though.

 

[olds307 and 403]

I actually went through the small vs large case trying to run a 120 amp CS130 amp alternator on my 70 Cutlass S. I run a serpentine setup from a mid 90's sbc truck. Well I am pretty sure you don't have a 10SI alternator, never seen this before. You actually have the rare 15 or 27si. The brushes and regulator should be the same. Not sure why a basic Cutlass would have a special large case, higher output alternator. We got weird cars up here. I wouldn't go below 85 amps, idle output is much less vs the later CS130 or other more modern alternators.