Do Grand Nationals get too much credit for the greatness of the G-Body?

[ck80]

Is driving a Monte SS with a 350 really that different to drive from a GN?

Yes.

It sounds like you've never ridden in one.

$ for $, compare riding in a stock trim of each, and then, including your engine purchase and rebuild costs (by someone on each side who KNOW what they're doing and has their car tuned) compare any 350 monte to a ttype/gn with the same drivetrain money invested.

There is no comparison until you're into 5 figures and hundreds of hours of personal labor that both cars are so far from stock as to not be applicable.

But 1000x yes.

I love the GN but it just seems like a car that is getting sold from owner to owner via auction and never driven and enjoyed.

Go visit turbobuick.com

There's thousands of those cars getting driven harder, blown up pushing the limits, and driven even harder again than any other performance gbody.

There is a collector following, but really it's just because more people recognized when the cars were new it was something special and wanted to save it. That happened much more rarely with the 442. Did happen with the monte, but more because of sheer production volume.

 

[ham1974]

I often wondered how many grand nationals/T types are left? There is always an 8.5 rear for sale somewhere.

 

[pontiacgp]

You guys are all off topic but I would like to know what is a Grant National?....

 

[motorheadmike]

The Turbo Buick reputation depends on a few factors.

1. The ownership group. Professional adult males were the target demographic when they were new - so it is likely their kids are buying them back and restoring them today... or those who were on their way up and missed the boat.

2. The enthusiasts. Stock for stock they were great cars when they were running well. The second they started to fall out of tune or developing issues they got stored or sold off. In the late 90s enthusiasts took to the internet to expand the knowledgebase and access to servicing these things, and created tools and parts to keep them running.

3. The few who optimized them to their potential. I am not talking about the bolt-on brigade. But, the guys and gals who effectively tweaked these cars with or without lots of go fast parts. Those ETs established the TRs' reputation as world beaters... every other piss poor example rode on their coattails.

In short, Turbo Buicks are better cars - no one steals parts off a MCSS to make a GN better. But, as a whole any G-body can be built for less to out perform a Turbo Buick... but, you have to build your own reputation.

 

[ck80]

I often wondered how many grand nationals/T types are left? There is always an 8.5 rear for sale somewhere.

The short answer is, alot.

442s and the 84 h/o had the 8.5, and as a percentage built, I'm sure there isn't a large number of those left and driving around. The 442s seem to have gotten parted out early and often. Sometimes bought, the rear pulled, a Monte 7.5 3.73 swapped in, and sold as a "project"... that's a number I really wonder about.

 

[pagrunt]

That could be a yes & no. I've been chasing parts since '90 when I got my Monte. There has been parts that came & gone (O.E. & repop) from those who supply us. Then there are the obvious parts that all years/make need & has yet to see the light of day. As we all know the more popular/"sport" models somewhat help get parts made. But that still leaves the quest for what is needed for certain common parts, parts made in large numbers for a particular model, interior parts/fabrics, fasteners/retainers, etc... If a model could help push to get other items need made, accept the effort it caused. I know the the Pontiac & Olds guys are in the lower end of what is out there, Chevy is the top end, Regal based models are starting to get some stuff made for more choices. Besides OPGI, Classic Industries jump into the A/G body game last year. So what does that have to say? Dispite our generation of A bodies (for this point I'm calling them all A's) having more cars made than the other three ('64-'67, '68-'72, '73-'77), we will never see the resources like the second generation. Let the GN/GNX lead the charge to get some more parts made. It may be for the "sport" models but still help out. Just hope they don't cause a "Corvette" effect on prices (parts the fits other models besides a Vette but its a Vette p/n...)

 

[Csilvy2000]

So it appears OPG is now adding a Grand National catalog to it's lineup. This is actually a major step in the commitment and longevity of available reproduction parts for the G-body. Problem is that just helps one small segment of the G-Body population.

The car world has been slow and reluctant to truly accept G-Body's as classic cars, we all know that. So in return the car world has latched strongly onto the Grand Nationals and especially the GNX because "it's the fastest one". It makes for great bragging rights.

Now don't get me wrong, I love the Grand National. But I don't think by itself it nearly tells the story of the G-body and why they are such enjoyable cars. The Grand National is just one chapter. Is driving a Monte SS with a 350 really that different to drive from a GN? Can you just write off how absolutely smooth so many models the G-Body Cutlass were? Or the Grand Prix and the 2+2? So many different G-Body's expressed so many different characteristics.

I love the GN but it just seems like a car that is getting sold from owner to owner via auction and never driven and enjoyed.

As a G-body enthusiast, we'll take any attention we can get.

 

[Clone TIE Pilot]

Yes. The GN guys helped to push the notion that GNs are the only good G bodies. That all of the other models are worthless posers. I remember on some GN forums, members would pretty often rag on other G body models and their owners saying why would anybody buy them when they could buy GNs. Of course not all GN owners are that way, but sadly a good number are. Though a few did admit they miss the ability to just start the engine, drive, and forget about it like with N/A engines. Not having to keep a constant watch on the boost level, scan master, and knock gauge, etc. to prevent blowing the engine.

The great irony with turbo Regals, except for GNXs, is that while they had the most powerful stock powertrains, they also had the weakest body and frame configuration of all the g bodies. Missing body bushings, missing bracing, failure prone brake boosters, etc. Most turbo Buicks will have distorted frames and bodies because of this. Not to mention the 3.8 motor itself had flaws since it was not originally designed to be turboed. The famous lack of head bolts to properly clamp down the heads under high boost. The weak oiling system, the tiny crank thrust bearing, split pin crank, weak cam bearings, no factory ability to adjust valve lash, soft aluminum oil pump, and more. Thinking about it they probably need parts more than other g body models, especially as many GN guys are proud to blow up their cars often, they are going to need a good supply of replacement parts.

 

[Ribbedroof]

I sure wish I knew somebody with a stock GN so I could experience this incredibly awesome car, since the only one I ever drove (an 86 that belonged to a former employer) was a total dog. I had heard all the raving about them and was looking forward to being impressed. I was not.

I'm assuming it was the miles (in the mid 80s) or poor state of tune (seemed OK, but who knows), but for the 7K he paid (circa 2000) I expected a lot more, given that the car badly needed paint and bumper fillers (which we did).

I don't discount other people's claims about the awesomeness of the GN, but that was not my experience....especially given all the bragging about being a corvette killer and the fastest production car of 1987. I think he wore that "we brake for corvettes" t shirt every other day for a solid month.

 

[tc1959]

I have noticed how much G-Body parts have gone up in just 8 years. I spent a bunch on the El Camino when we restored it 2010. It would cost me twice that today. It would be nice if all G-Body values would increase also.