Bitchin'-Buick said:
If you want a shop to source an engine and transmission with a warranty and then install them, you're prolly looking at 3k+. Most of the normal shops won't want to swap to a different model engine.
>>Don't Want To Get Snowballed<<
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If you want a shop to source an engine and transmission with a warranty and then install them, you're prolly looking at 3k+. Most of the normal shops won't want to swap to a different model engine.
jrm81bu said:
Yep. Shops are in the game to make money. They do this best by doing work that's easy for them to do and churning the work out quickly. Engine swaps are something most shops would do ( but it's pricey ), but when you're switching from one type of engine to a completely different setup altogether, most shops would look at that as being too time consuming to make enough money for them to want to do ( or they will charge you an arm and a leg ). I would never trust a shop to do this sort of work and do it right.
You say you have tools, some mechanical know-how, and a garage? If that's the case, then your best bet ( if you insist on doing an overdone Chubby 350 swap ) is to buy a BRAND NEW GM crate 350 WITH WARRENTY for about $1500, buy/rent a cherry picker ( they're cheap ), gather all the odds and ends you're going to need to switch to a Chitty 350, and do the swap yourself in your own garage. Get a friend over to help. It's really easy to do, it's just time consuming. It's really nothing more than 'unbolt/disconnect anything that would prevent the engine from lifting out' and pulling it out. If you get stuck, there are tons of threads about doing exactly what you'd be doing.
Remember, you can always do most of the grunt work yourself ( like the actual dropping in of the new motor ), and towing it to a shop to finnish off the things you're not able to do.
I'm thinking $3k at a shop is low to be honest. Buying a new engine, trans, accessories, radiator, exhaust, fluids, belts, hoses and little parts FROM A SHOP is going to add up really fast. Then tack on labor! Most reputable shops are going to be looking at things like EPA regulations too....which means they might not even want to touch it.
I think you'd be further ahead by buying a hoist and giving it a shot. It's not as bad as you think. On the bright side, info on SBC swaps are everywhere and as cheap as it gets when you do it yourself. You'll also gain a better understanding of the car when it's all done.
I think you'd be further ahead by buying a hoist and giving it a shot. It's not as bad as you think. On the bright side, info on SBC swaps are everywhere and as cheap as it gets when you do it yourself. You'll also gain a better understanding of the car when it's all done.
Everyone definitely gave me alot to think about, which Is what I was looking for...... Like I said in my O.P. It's not every day you go shopping for an Engine Transplant.
Thanks to ALL for the great Info........
<Mike>
Thanks to ALL for the great Info........
<Mike>
Too bad you aren't in NYC. The taxi cab industry here has spawned numerous shops that replace engines all day long, and they are expected to last at least 100K, with quick in-and-out service.
Here`s some info for you. I have done dozens of engine R&R over the years at work for customers who are replacing blown or otherwise damaged engines with similar used ones. If you expect to shop to source a good used engine/trans assembly and swap it in, assuming you find one willing to do so, will probably set you back $3-5k AT LEAST depending on what has to be done to the used mill. Around here a decent, used 350/350 combo purchased used will cost the shop $1500 or so and they will tack on a good $500 profit on that before even starting the job. Add in belts, hoses, gaskets, thermostat, exhaust with modifies trans crossmember, re-route or extend or fix things like fuel lines and wiring, plus labor and it will get very expensive, very quickly. And again that assumes you find a shop or garage willing to do the work. Every garage I`ve worked at systematicaly refused custom engine swaps because it allways comes out more expensive than the customer originally planned or has the money to pay for, and in the time it would take to do the shop can do untold brake/exhaust/suspension jobs and make 3X the profit. Not to rain on your parade but just being honest. The only type of shop that will probably consider doing this your local speed/race shop who does this on a daily basis. Again, expensive. And that`s assuming a good, running used engine/trans.
Where`s what I would do (and have done in the past) since you have a decent work space and good basic knowledge. If you want new/rebuilt, the best deal going as others have sais is a brand new GM crate engine. you can get a basic short block or a complete 350HO, ready to drop in, from $1500 to $3500 depending on options. These are brand new, not rebuilt and are warantied. A quick look at the jeg`s website and you can get a complete, ready to install 350 for $2200. A good, rebuilt transmission is around $1000-1300 depending on performance options and so forth. While not cheap, I think this is the best deal going for a new assembly, all you have to do is install it which you should be able to do.
If you want a good, used combo, then search the local classifieds for a decent running pick-up or express van. 88-93 will give you a centerbolt 350 with a non-copmuter controlled 700-r4 or 98-2000 a rollercam, vertec 350 and 4l65e. While these are basic tbi engines, you can keep the injection or swap an carb/intake on and have some fun with your regal. I`ve seen some of these locally in the 2500 to 3500 range. The bodies may be junk and rusted but who cares, you want the drivetrain. The advantage to this option is that while the drivetrain is used, you also get every accessory, part, wire and do-dad with the engine. Except for things like mounts which obviously wont fit, you get things like the starter, front accessory drive, exhaust manifolds and other small parts which nickle and dime the price of a swap with ease.
One other source for good used drivetrains is the auto auction. Most major citys have a place where used cars are aucitonned off between dealers where they purchase their lease returns for the used car lot. While these are abviously not good sources for older cars and trucks, the one here in Montreal has a second auction lot where older and wrecked cars are sold. That`s what you want. They frequently have what you`re looking for. 2 years ago I purchased complete 3rd gen z28 with a Lt1 and five speed for $600. It had been rear ended pretty bad but the the motor started and ran beautifully. It cost $150. to tow it back to my friends place where we proceded to pull the engine and trans and drop it into his 84 camaro. Total cost was about $1300 once all the other incidentals were included. It still runs like a charm. I have seen lots of trucks, caprice copcars and other similar models roll through this auction and sell for less than $1200.
That`s what I would do (and have already done) for a inexpensive drivetrain swap. This won`t make your regal a race car but you`ll have more fun than with the v6 and gives you a good base for futur improvements.
Ok, rant finished, my $.04 given (too long a post for $.02)
deanlemans81
Where`s what I would do (and have done in the past) since you have a decent work space and good basic knowledge. If you want new/rebuilt, the best deal going as others have sais is a brand new GM crate engine. you can get a basic short block or a complete 350HO, ready to drop in, from $1500 to $3500 depending on options. These are brand new, not rebuilt and are warantied. A quick look at the jeg`s website and you can get a complete, ready to install 350 for $2200. A good, rebuilt transmission is around $1000-1300 depending on performance options and so forth. While not cheap, I think this is the best deal going for a new assembly, all you have to do is install it which you should be able to do.
If you want a good, used combo, then search the local classifieds for a decent running pick-up or express van. 88-93 will give you a centerbolt 350 with a non-copmuter controlled 700-r4 or 98-2000 a rollercam, vertec 350 and 4l65e. While these are basic tbi engines, you can keep the injection or swap an carb/intake on and have some fun with your regal. I`ve seen some of these locally in the 2500 to 3500 range. The bodies may be junk and rusted but who cares, you want the drivetrain. The advantage to this option is that while the drivetrain is used, you also get every accessory, part, wire and do-dad with the engine. Except for things like mounts which obviously wont fit, you get things like the starter, front accessory drive, exhaust manifolds and other small parts which nickle and dime the price of a swap with ease.
One other source for good used drivetrains is the auto auction. Most major citys have a place where used cars are aucitonned off between dealers where they purchase their lease returns for the used car lot. While these are abviously not good sources for older cars and trucks, the one here in Montreal has a second auction lot where older and wrecked cars are sold. That`s what you want. They frequently have what you`re looking for. 2 years ago I purchased complete 3rd gen z28 with a Lt1 and five speed for $600. It had been rear ended pretty bad but the the motor started and ran beautifully. It cost $150. to tow it back to my friends place where we proceded to pull the engine and trans and drop it into his 84 camaro. Total cost was about $1300 once all the other incidentals were included. It still runs like a charm. I have seen lots of trucks, caprice copcars and other similar models roll through this auction and sell for less than $1200.
That`s what I would do (and have already done) for a inexpensive drivetrain swap. This won`t make your regal a race car but you`ll have more fun than with the v6 and gives you a good base for futur improvements.
Ok, rant finished, my $.04 given (too long a post for $.02)
deanlemans81
Thanks Bonnewagon.... And Dean, Holy hell :wink: .
Dean>>> to be honest with you I'm going to have to re-read your post after work tomorrow When my brain can better absorb all the additional Info and comment on it...... Work in the A.M.
I really want to do my Girl right in the long run and tough decisions need to be made....
I also have 91' WS6 Bird(305TBI) and Also belong to the F-Body/3rd Gen page also. I have read and seen Hundreds of builds go great and many, even tho some with those alot more knowledgeable than myself >> Fail?
I would love to start from scratch!!!!!!!
The question I still need to sleep on is >> A: Do it myself and save money/have satisfaction/miss out on another summer to a meticulous rebuild or Epic fail. Or B: Pay a Buttload.... And other options in between.......
<Mike>
Dean>>> to be honest with you I'm going to have to re-read your post after work tomorrow When my brain can better absorb all the additional Info and comment on it...... Work in the A.M.
I really want to do my Girl right in the long run and tough decisions need to be made....
I also have 91' WS6 Bird(305TBI) and Also belong to the F-Body/3rd Gen page also. I have read and seen Hundreds of builds go great and many, even tho some with those alot more knowledgeable than myself >> Fail?
I would love to start from scratch!!!!!!!
The question I still need to sleep on is >> A: Do it myself and save money/have satisfaction/miss out on another summer to a meticulous rebuild or Epic fail. Or B: Pay a Buttload.... And other options in between.......
<Mike>
X2 on option A
Bitchin'-Buick wrote: "That's why I do 98% of my own work."
It will be hard to make this statement if you are going to pay someone to do 100% of the work!
Bitchin'-Buick wrote: "That's why I do 98% of my own work."
It will be hard to make this statement if you are going to pay someone to do 100% of the work!
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