Not quite true. Most of the big 3's production is still in the U.S. GM is shutting down its truck plant in Oshawa next year. They're laying off people at the car plants as well. Ford has closed several facilities in Canada. Today, Chrysler announced plans to possibly close 2 plants in Canada in order to preserve production at U.S. plants. Toyota and Honda are producing cars in Canada. I know that the big 3 are producing vehicles in Mexico, and I'm not sure how many vehicles are being built there, but I'm pretty sure that most of the big 3's production is still in the U.S.A.
GM lover, i urge all of you now.
- Thread starter vm1971
- Start date
- Status
Megladon hit on what should be one of the stipulations on the bail-out money. All money should have to be spent in the US. Any jobs created, get created here! $15,000,000,000 would pay an awful lot of wages (even if they are bloated by the unions).
I heard a rumor that GM wants to spend part of the money to build a plant in Brazil. If they do and we let them, we deserve our country to fail.
I agree that the wages at union auto plants are too high. The problem with cutting the wages though is that these have always been the best paying jobs in the country, cutting them could result in a domino effect down the pay scale. If GM wages go down, Honda can cut their wages and still compete for employees, subsidiaries, suppliers, and other manufacturing jobs pay could be cut to make them in line with the new wages at GM. Very similar to the reverse of the effect of raising minimum wages. However, in honesty it may just be time to acknowledge that these may no longer be the best jobs. It does not seem fair that a technician that has to know the entire car makes less than a guy that turns the same 5 bolts all day.
I heard a rumor that GM wants to spend part of the money to build a plant in Brazil. If they do and we let them, we deserve our country to fail.
I agree that the wages at union auto plants are too high. The problem with cutting the wages though is that these have always been the best paying jobs in the country, cutting them could result in a domino effect down the pay scale. If GM wages go down, Honda can cut their wages and still compete for employees, subsidiaries, suppliers, and other manufacturing jobs pay could be cut to make them in line with the new wages at GM. Very similar to the reverse of the effect of raising minimum wages. However, in honesty it may just be time to acknowledge that these may no longer be the best jobs. It does not seem fair that a technician that has to know the entire car makes less than a guy that turns the same 5 bolts all day.
I agree. If they get our money, it needs to be spent employing our citizens. Speaking of which, I ran into something lovely the other day. I was looking at the qualifications for Medicaid (for my depression), and while I (a legal US citizen, born and raised here, tax payer since I was 15) cannot get any assistance because I make too much at $25,000 a year. However, if I was an illegal immigrant I would be legally entitled to assistance. Gotta love that! Why does my tax money go to pay for someone here illegally by law? I can understand me not being able to get assistance, but I don't get why someone who is not part of our system gets it automatically. That makes no sense at all.
(BTW, it may sound like hypocrisy for me to seek any sort of assistance, but it is one of those situations where me not getting help is almost a death sentence. I am better than I was a few weeks ago, but I need to fix the issue or it will destroy me. I have tried to do it myself for years, but it is beyond my abilities to fix it. I'd rather be a hypocrite than suffer any longer. Unfortunately, I do not have the financial ability to pay for the whole thing or I would. Even when I had insurance, this was never covered.)
(BTW, it may sound like hypocrisy for me to seek any sort of assistance, but it is one of those situations where me not getting help is almost a death sentence. I am better than I was a few weeks ago, but I need to fix the issue or it will destroy me. I have tried to do it myself for years, but it is beyond my abilities to fix it. I'd rather be a hypocrite than suffer any longer. Unfortunately, I do not have the financial ability to pay for the whole thing or I would. Even when I had insurance, this was never covered.)
85CB not to rub salt in the wounds, but remember when I was arguing for universal health care. You have pointed out the exact issue with the current system. you can only get help if you are poor. Hard working middle income people get little to no help. There are 2 ways to solve this, cut the help to the poor or add help for hard working middle class (like you). I choose the latter. Have you changed your mind yet?
Think about how much GM (and the other 2) would save if they did not have to pay direct costs for health care. With as bad as they are doing and as low as profits are, their taxes would be reduced. When/ if they start doing better their cost would go up. At least the costs would be tied to income, not fixed independent of income.
Think about how much GM (and the other 2) would save if they did not have to pay direct costs for health care. With as bad as they are doing and as low as profits are, their taxes would be reduced. When/ if they start doing better their cost would go up. At least the costs would be tied to income, not fixed independent of income.
Read my edit.
Anyhow, I have not really changed my mind, but I am in a very bad situation as my problem is not normally covered by insurance. Am I a hypocrite? Maybe. But I have tried for over 20 years to cope with my various issues by myself and it hasn't worked. I have spent my own money on expensive medications that did not work, or even made things worse in some cases. I can analyze myself to death, and know why I am who I am in almost all respects, but I really need help or my life will either amount to nothing or end in death by my own hand. I may have to pay everything out of pocket, but in the end, it will be worth it to me to finally be able to have a normal life. If I have to, I will end up selling off everything I own to pay for it. I am hoping that there is some sort of program or charitable trust I can tap in to. For anyone who has never had a problem with major depression, count yourself VERY lucky. It is about as bad as any other chronic or deadly illness you can think of. It's not just the normal sadness you feel after something bad happens in your life, it is with you all the time and you never feel better. When this lasts for years or decades, it is easy to lose hope and let it ruin your life. Try as I have to fight it, that is what it has done to me.
Do I believe in a universal system? I still don't. I do believe in charitable organizations, and such for those who live on the fringes though. I also think that the current system is much too pricey for those who are not insured versus the price that insurance companies pay. Anyhow, I have 4 more chapters of Calculus homework I have to do by 8am, so I'll stop now.
Anyhow, I have not really changed my mind, but I am in a very bad situation as my problem is not normally covered by insurance. Am I a hypocrite? Maybe. But I have tried for over 20 years to cope with my various issues by myself and it hasn't worked. I have spent my own money on expensive medications that did not work, or even made things worse in some cases. I can analyze myself to death, and know why I am who I am in almost all respects, but I really need help or my life will either amount to nothing or end in death by my own hand. I may have to pay everything out of pocket, but in the end, it will be worth it to me to finally be able to have a normal life. If I have to, I will end up selling off everything I own to pay for it. I am hoping that there is some sort of program or charitable trust I can tap in to. For anyone who has never had a problem with major depression, count yourself VERY lucky. It is about as bad as any other chronic or deadly illness you can think of. It's not just the normal sadness you feel after something bad happens in your life, it is with you all the time and you never feel better. When this lasts for years or decades, it is easy to lose hope and let it ruin your life. Try as I have to fight it, that is what it has done to me.
Do I believe in a universal system? I still don't. I do believe in charitable organizations, and such for those who live on the fringes though. I also think that the current system is much too pricey for those who are not insured versus the price that insurance companies pay. Anyhow, I have 4 more chapters of Calculus homework I have to do by 8am, so I'll stop now.
Why is it we can give $750B to the banking industry without batting an eye (they debated it for less than a week or two), but we are making the Auto Makers grobble for 2%-3% of that? Since the banks have all of this new secured capital, why can't they lend the money to the auto manufacturers?
Because they want to kill the unions. I agree that the wages in the plants may have gotten too high. Technicians that have to know every system on the car are not paid as much as a guy that only installs doors all day long. However, we have to be humane about it. These fat union workers are human beings with bills and responsibilities. They are willing to take a cut in 2011, but immediately without time to prepare? How many of us would settle for that without a fight. Maybe if we redued it over a period of time, like the raises came they could prepare.
Cut the executives pays beofre the workers. If you cut theirs they still have millions, and what we cut-off of theirs would pay for alot of workers. All new highers (if any) should be at lower wages of course, and any money spent on new factories should be built in the US with lower paid workers (GM building a plant in Brazil is a disgrace).
Why doesn't the government stipulate that the bail-out money should be paid back as subsidies on new fuel efficient vehicles for the American people. We get a double stimulus package for the automakers in new sales since the imports could not offer the same subsidies. And the American people finally get something for our taxes. How much would a cheap fuel efficient vehicle be worth to you? Talk about a stimulus package for the American people. And we would replace a lot of old in-efficient cars that the poorer people drive now.
The government is going to bail the automakers out one way or the other, and they want to give a stimulus package to the people, we could do both at once. The money saved on car payments and fuel could be spent elsewhere.
Saying that American cars suck because the cars of the late 80's- early 90's is unfair. How often do you see old foreign cars. There are alot more 80's Caveliers on the street than 80's Carollas on the road. Alot of the cars of that era were junk from all of the manufacturers. They rotted out because of cheap steel and paint. The new Malibu, Impala, G6, and G8 are good cars, but GM cannot shake the stigma of past sins.
Because they want to kill the unions. I agree that the wages in the plants may have gotten too high. Technicians that have to know every system on the car are not paid as much as a guy that only installs doors all day long. However, we have to be humane about it. These fat union workers are human beings with bills and responsibilities. They are willing to take a cut in 2011, but immediately without time to prepare? How many of us would settle for that without a fight. Maybe if we redued it over a period of time, like the raises came they could prepare.
Cut the executives pays beofre the workers. If you cut theirs they still have millions, and what we cut-off of theirs would pay for alot of workers. All new highers (if any) should be at lower wages of course, and any money spent on new factories should be built in the US with lower paid workers (GM building a plant in Brazil is a disgrace).
Why doesn't the government stipulate that the bail-out money should be paid back as subsidies on new fuel efficient vehicles for the American people. We get a double stimulus package for the automakers in new sales since the imports could not offer the same subsidies. And the American people finally get something for our taxes. How much would a cheap fuel efficient vehicle be worth to you? Talk about a stimulus package for the American people. And we would replace a lot of old in-efficient cars that the poorer people drive now.
The government is going to bail the automakers out one way or the other, and they want to give a stimulus package to the people, we could do both at once. The money saved on car payments and fuel could be spent elsewhere.
Saying that American cars suck because the cars of the late 80's- early 90's is unfair. How often do you see old foreign cars. There are alot more 80's Caveliers on the street than 80's Carollas on the road. Alot of the cars of that era were junk from all of the manufacturers. They rotted out because of cheap steel and paint. The new Malibu, Impala, G6, and G8 are good cars, but GM cannot shake the stigma of past sins.
I see old foreign cars a lot more than domestics where I live, if you are talking about small cars. Big cars, well there weren't too many made by non-American manufacturers in the 80's, and if they were, they were high end luxury models few could afford.
As for the whole bailout thing, why do we need to bail anyone out? I don't want to see the manufacturing capacity of the auto industry go away (we will need it soon when we go to war), but I don't want it indefinitely propped up by our money either. If we keep propping up failing businesses, we will suffer a fate worse than Iceland.
As for the whole bailout thing, why do we need to bail anyone out? I don't want to see the manufacturing capacity of the auto industry go away (we will need it soon when we go to war), but I don't want it indefinitely propped up by our money either. If we keep propping up failing businesses, we will suffer a fate worse than Iceland.
Stoopud is right about their being a lot more older American cars than Japanese cars in this area. With are crappy winters and all of the salt we use, it tears apart cars. The older j* cars that I do see still driving around look a lot more worse than the American cars look. We also probably have a lot more American cars up here because we do have a Ford and Chevy plant, so more people are going to have American cars.
Also, if they have a j* car they have to park in different sections of the parking lot. :lol:
Also, if they have a j* car they have to park in different sections of the parking lot. :lol:
Well, the Norther Union states typically bought domestics in much greater numbers than imports to begin with for cultural and sociological reasons. Outside the rust belt, the mechanical superiority of Japanese small cars means they tend to run for many more miles than their domestic counterparts. Since vehicles here die more often of mechanical failure and accident damage than corrosion, the cars with better mechanical systems tend to survive in greater percentages. We also have large amounts of large domestic barges like Crown Vic's too, because of their popularity with all the retirees. Even still, it is not uncommon to see Mitsubishi's with a Pearl Harbor Veteran license plate and stickers on it. I always get a chuckle out of seeing that because of the irony of it all. (Mitsubishi built the A6M "Zero" fighter used at Pearl Harbor)
I hate the idea of loosing chevy and ford, but maybe its time for some new players in the domestic car industry.
Lets face it, they just dont build cars the way they should anymore. I have had chevys and fords wioth well over 200,000 miles on almost all original parts, but nowadays you are lucky to get over 150,000 on a lot of vehicals.
As far as the mopars, well we kinda lost them years ago. With the buyouts, buybacks, and other bullshit within the corperate offices.
They have also been using junk Mitsubishi engines (engines that mitsubishi dont even use that much) in a lot of cars, as well as other foriegn engine.
The motor that they put in the sebrings in the last few year dies at around 80,000 mile pretty much no matter how you took care of it, I have read about a posible class action law suit about it, cause the dealers wont fix it, unless your willing to spend over $6,000 on a rebuilt motor (not including the labor for installing it)
Hell you can build a brand new beefy v-8 for that kind of money.
Like i said maybe its time for some new blood in the domestic industry. And no more of the "big 3" putting the brakes on other up and coming car company.
I would like to see a car that is 100% american made, hell i would be happy with a car that is 95% north american made(including canada, and mexico)
As far as the big 3 building are militery vehicles in a time of war. Yes they did it before, but now there are dedicated plants building a lot of that stuff.
Lets face it, they just dont build cars the way they should anymore. I have had chevys and fords wioth well over 200,000 miles on almost all original parts, but nowadays you are lucky to get over 150,000 on a lot of vehicals.
As far as the mopars, well we kinda lost them years ago. With the buyouts, buybacks, and other bullshit within the corperate offices.
They have also been using junk Mitsubishi engines (engines that mitsubishi dont even use that much) in a lot of cars, as well as other foriegn engine.
The motor that they put in the sebrings in the last few year dies at around 80,000 mile pretty much no matter how you took care of it, I have read about a posible class action law suit about it, cause the dealers wont fix it, unless your willing to spend over $6,000 on a rebuilt motor (not including the labor for installing it)
Hell you can build a brand new beefy v-8 for that kind of money.
Like i said maybe its time for some new blood in the domestic industry. And no more of the "big 3" putting the brakes on other up and coming car company.
I would like to see a car that is 100% american made, hell i would be happy with a car that is 95% north american made(including canada, and mexico)
As far as the big 3 building are militery vehicles in a time of war. Yes they did it before, but now there are dedicated plants building a lot of that stuff.
- Status
