Going back to CCC controls and reinstalling A/C

[olds307 and 403]

The CCC was a good for the time and a 442 based set up is a better starting point. A TBI is another way to go, mine runs fairly decent but a custom tune would be best. I am basically fooling the computer by adding 20 degrees base timing. Supposedly a guy put an Olds 350 in a Camaro, added the TBI , wanted a custom chip from TBI chips. The guy didn't feel comfortable doing one for an Olds. At least the CCC has the more aggressive Olds timing curve built into it. Are all CCC carb set ups compatable with a knock sensor? It might be a good add on.

 

[G-Body_Vet]

Are you guys really seeing that much improvement in gas mileage over a non-CCC Q-jet? I'm in the same boat with trying to strike a balance of running big cubes and acceptable mileage. I'm doing it with a Pontiac though and keeping the Q-jet since it's the best of both worlds carb-wise.

I see your point Pencero. Gas mileage and big blocks really don't belong in the same sentence. On another note though, you can practically roll 30-35mph at idle with the torque they make. There's a lot of other factors that come into play too. You don't need the low gearing to get moving, after-market parts are way more advanced than the stock parts from the 70's, you can run higher CR to make them more efficient now, aluminum heads if you have the $$$ to spend, etc.

On top of that you just don't get the same rush from a small block when you open up the secondaries! :shock:
My daily driver is a '94 Deville with a 4.9. City mpg is only 12-15. Highway is 20-22 on a good day. That's 200hp/275ft lb in a 4100lb car. Double that power and put it in a 3400lb car and you're flyin'!

Sure my GP won't be a daily when it's done but it will be what I want it to be. I wouldn't be doing a frame-off build on a daily either.

 

[Minion1186]

The only thing I would be conserned about is the EFE heat riser. I would rather use headers than manifolds on the motor, but then I cant use the EFE heat riser with headers. Will the computer sense that there's no EFE connected and flash a code? Or am I better off with manifolds and using the EFE?

Olds307 and 403- I know in the late 80's GM started using knock sensors on 307's, they put them into the side of the block where one of the freeze caps would go. I agree that it'd be a good add on, but I dont know how they wired them up, or if the added something else to the distibutor to retard the timing to stop the detonation when the knock sensor detected it.

 

[DoubleV]

The only thing I would be conserned about is the EFE heat riser. I would rather use headers than manifolds on the motor, but then I cant use the EFE heat riser with headers. Will the computer sense that there's no EFE connected and flash a code? Or am I better off with manifolds and using the EFE?

You don't need the EFE valve whether you're running on the CCC system or not. Besides, you can't run an EFE valve on big block manifolds anyway, so the question's moot :wink: . You don't need to worry about this. You don't need the A.I.R. garbage either.

Olds307 and 403- I know in the late 80's GM started using knock sensors on 307's, they put them into the side of the block where one of the freeze caps would go. I agree that it'd be a good add on, but I dont know how they wired them up, or if the added something else to the distibutor to retard the timing to stop the detonation when the knock sensor detected it.

You won't have to worry about a knock sensor since only the 88 and up ECM's/CCC wiring harness had them.

 

[DoubleV]

Are you guys really seeing that much improvement in gas mileage over a non-CCC Q-jet?

I've heard others claim 3-4 MPG better when driven sensibly. On my car I never checked because I always flog it when I drive it so I don't expect much if any improvement. On a fairly long highway jaunt one time, all I could say is the milage was VERY good with the CCC system in place since I wasn't flogging it.

I see your point Pencero. Gas mileage and big blocks really don't belong in the same sentence.

Sure they do. You just have to put the word 'bad' in front of the word 'gas'. :wink:

But seriously, my thoughts are if there is anything that can be done to improve milage in a street driven car with no additional drawbacks in doing so ( cost, PITA, performance etc ), then I say sure why not.

 

[G-Body_Vet]

when driven sensibly.

See there's the problem right there! I often wonder if going to a built 200-4R is worth the few extra mpg too. I think anything numerically higher than a 3.08 rear gear is going to be traction challenged for my car.

 

[DoubleV]

An OD transmission does so much more than just give better MPG. IMO ( other than the much better MPG ) the best thing about an OD transmission is the 'side effects' of a lower RPM when cruising; reduced noise, vibration, and wear & tear on the engine. A 2004r has 'better' gear ratios than a 350/400 transmission too. It also will allow you to put more HP to the wheels over a 350/400 transmission though I certainly don't know exactly how much.

Just do a simple test; if you have sucky stock gearing in your car right now, just drive around in 2nd gear everywhere. That's what it would be roughly equivalent to driving a car in 3rd gear with 3.73 gears. See, hear, and even feel how much crappier it is driving around like that. Just for fun, if I switch my car ( 3.73 gears ) out of OD on the highway I find it absolutly unbearable. For those who've never had the luxury of OD and are used to doing it 'old school', you might think it's perfectly fine though....until you swapped in an OD and you say 'wow, I've really been missing out!'.

Now since a big block doesn't need as much gear, you could get away with less gear and would'nt miss the OD so much, but when you get some gear, OD can't be beat. Of course non OD's are great for racing, but street driving I'll take an OD any day of the week.

Of course this is just how I see it. YMMV ( pun intended :wink: ).

 

[G-Body_Vet]

Trust me, I've had a TH350 w/ 3.73's once upon a time and never again! A 455 with a 4.21" stroke doesn't like to rev anyway without some bottom end TLC.

The TH350's aren't too bad for weight and internal drag, but the TH400 gets the bad rap for power consumption due to the cast iron center support from what I've read. I suppose this also lends itself to the TH400's indestructible reputation too.

It really comes down to cost and what you're willing to live with though. I can't see buying a 200-4R and converter built to handle 550+ ft lbs of torque for less than $2500 out the door altogether. I'm looking at places like CK Performance though. I've heard mixed reviews about other places and I'm not a fan of rolling the dice when that amount of money is on the table.

 

[Clone TIE Pilot]

The only thing I would be conserned about is the EFE heat riser. I would rather use headers than manifolds on the motor, but then I cant use the EFE heat riser with headers. Will the computer sense that there's no EFE connected and flash a code? Or am I better off with manifolds and using the EFE?

You don't need the EFE valve whether you're running on the CCC system or not. Besides, you can't run an EFE valve on big block manifolds anyway, so the question's moot :wink: . You don't need to worry about this. You don't need the A.I.R. garbage either.

Olds307 and 403- I know in the late 80's GM started using knock sensors on 307's, they put them into the side of the block where one of the freeze caps would go. I agree that it'd be a good add on, but I dont know how they wired them up, or if the added something else to the distibutor to retard the timing to stop the detonation when the knock sensor detected it.

You won't have to worry about a knock sensor since only the 88 and up ECM's/CCC wiring harness had them.

My 86 Regal had a knock sensor in it's V6, and when I swapped it out for a 305 out of a 86 MCSS, it too had a knock sensor. But I don't know when Olds started to use knock sensors?

 

[DoubleV]

You don't need the EFE My 86 Regal had a knock sensor in it's V6, and when I swapped it out for a 305 out of a 86 MCSS, it too had a knock sensor. But I don't know when Olds started to use knock sensors?

Yes, I meant to say that OLDS didn't have knock sensors on their 307's untill 88.