Have Electric Cars finally killed muscle cars???

[pagrunt]

Many of those 'changes' improved functionality and ease of use. The idea is that the ev push, in its current form, and with its current motivations, is not that.

We've talked about the lack of infrastructure in this thread. And environmental issues. But what about stored energy?

All is fine and well if you live somewhere there are never power outages from storms. Or where you don't flee hurricanes.

I can buy gas, put it in a portable tank, and extend the range of my vehicle or make sure it functions as a source of emergency heat/cooling with extreme weather. EVs neither possess, nor have touted such ability.

And can you imagine all the dangerous breakdowns fleeing the path of a big storm?

There are a lot of areas between my home county of Armstrong & work county of Indiana that don't have the means currently to support mass EV use. These areas don't have a strong means to support ICE vehicles currently. Even on the power grid, the sub stations wouldn't be able to support higher demands of other fossil fuel powered/power supported items. We have several coal plants in the area but are all scheduled to be shuttered by the end of the decade with no replacements. Near the Flight 93 Memorial site there are a lot of windmills but I've seen most of them idle when I was down that way for the electric company. Then when it comes to solar, western Pa really isn't an ideal area with how our weather can be like at times. The other factor in our area is when it gets really cold, the extra draw to heat buildings & charging EV's will push the system. I have a co-worker who is originally from Maine & said he hearing back from his home area it's going around that in their typical cold winter EV's are only getting about 150 miles a charge instead of the warm weather 300 cause it's rough on the batteries. We don't have the infrastructure inplace or the real funds needed to complete what is needed by 2035 to support the proposed need. Technology isn't progressing fast enough to ensure EV's are cost effective. On top of that there is money being dumped into other technologies to add to the draw on EV batteries that can wait cause I believe the infastructure to support that stuff isn't there either. I've been in areas GPS is as wrong as (insert you chosen phrase here) so how will self driving function there let alone to where you need to be for a charge? When it does come time to start building the needed infastructure & those who support it but don't want it built close to there neighborhoods, what do you do about that? There are still too many variables that need to be worked out that doesn't work with the planned speed to convert the world.

Another thing to think about is all that wonderful stuff from over the past 70 years that was to be in use by 2000 that hasn't happened yet but was so near to be reality back then. Not making my statement political but imagine if all that stuff was made political how fast yesterdays world of tomorrow would of been here.

 

[jiho]

Without the public support, no forced change is going to go as planned.

Like for Putin in Ukraine. (Ironically, given the impact on gas prices.)

 

[jiho]

Not to mention mass high speed electric transit trains (200+ mph) across the nation. Dreams are there, the money is lacking.

Take the San Francisco-to-Los Angeles route here in California. Please.

They started building one piece of it out in the Central Valley that goes from nowhere to nowhere. Then discovered that they lack a practical way to get through the mountains to reach Los Angeles. And if there is a way, ticket prices will require massive state subsidies, otherwise the cars will be empty. Then local opposition arose against other parts of the route. So there was a move to kill funding. But apparently that piece from nowhere to nowhere is still being built.

And of course the thing is electric. Loads and loads of electric.

The whole EV thing has that kind of feel to it.

The real catch in all of this is that our beady little minds lack capacity to analyze all aspects of complicated problems, and all consequences of proposed solutions, all at once. So we stumble through trial and error.

 

[BlairC_789]

I’m all for EVs and AV’s (autonomous vehicles) to be on the roads. I’ve been dabbling with Battery powered things for a while with converting small things to electric. I did an ebike conversion for just under $200 (less than a 2 or 4 stroke bicycle motor kit). Granted i had to do lots of fab work and build my own batteries, and electrical work, but it’s better than any pre made motor conversion kit I’ve used. I can do 38 and still drive it through the city or my college campus. I had a dual battery set up and I never even drained one after 30 miles of riding. (Faster and easily way more range than a 2 stroke bicycle conversion)

After many years and many different gas mini bikes and go karts I decided to see if I could convert one of them since it’s a step up from an ebike. So I chose to take the 6.5hp Honda pressure washer engine I had on one of my mini bikes to use the frame for the project
This time I built a 96v battery (spent around $125 in used battery cells alone to make the battery, 10 in nickel soldering strip, $15 for a BMS, and $4 in connectors, and $5 in materials used 2 computer fans I had laying around to keep the battery cooler inside the protective case I made. $125 for a 120v motor and main controller. $25 for the electric throttle and brake handles. And then maybe $25 for random connectors, wire, and other odds and ends.
In the end this project turned out awesome! Reaching speeds of 50 (equal with the 6.5hp Honda), but it was scary too go full throttle off the line. It’s not something I would thrash around in some mud or drive in the middle of a rain storm as I would do with a gas engine, but I had ridden both the ebike and mini bike through snow and with light rain outside and wet grass.
I’ll see if I can get some pictures of the mini bike since I sold it to my dads friend a couple months ago, and I’ll post it here in a reply if I can. Although I’ve kept my ebike for riding around college campus and even to work during the nice summer days (20 mile commute total) which is so much fun

In the future I really hope to do an electric conversion in a car at home, but we will see with time. Definitely would be learning curve to it, and a bit more pricey compared to just slapping a good ole small block into a car and being done.
I think it would be fun just to have the experience of trying it, and owning an EV. Instead of taking the idea out back like a dog and shooting it before even trying it.

 

[ck80]

I think it would be fun just to have the experience of trying it, and owning an EV. Instead of taking the idea out back like a dog and shooting it before even trying it.

Amd there's the whole idea here. People who WANT it should be free to try it. But, likewise, those who DONT shouldn't be forced into it. Let the free market decide it.

Cities in the northern part of the country get less than 9 hours total daylight a year in the shortest part, coupled with crippling cold. Not really ideal battery and solar territory.

Meanwhile, for all the disruptions in the economy and ways of life, are you aware that there are MORE people in the world living in countries that the emissions treaties give the right to INCREASE fossil fuel output per capita than those required to cut? So these forced mandates for inferior and un supported by infrastructure products aren't making the changes they're touted for. But leave that aside a minute.

Just think, honestly think, about the problems. Home ownership is at an all time low. Apartment complexes aren't going to put an ev charger in every parking spot in the open air. And an employer isn't going to put a charger in every parking spot at work. Maybe you get a dozen or two, tops. So when is everyone supposed to charge a thing?

Think of battery replacement costs. How long does the battery in your cell phone keep working and holding as long of a charge? Drops off over time, a LOT right? Same LI-ION technology generally speaking. And while you're talking charge, the solution in the batteries get sluggish in the cold, that's one reason you lose about 20% of range per charge. But, you also aren't supposed to discharge below 20% either. So, on a 300 mile 'range' you get 240 usable miles, when new and before degradation.

We can go back and forth until blue in the fave on this one, but the reality is, it's a technology that makes more sense if someone lives in a city and can go a month between charges if they need to because the have so many short trips... kind of how if we cut the cord on the nationwide landline telephone network in 1982. Maybe you could cover a major metro city with a half dozen towers, but, nationwide its was a premature/bad idea. Then, over time, devices improved, towers were added because the industry could support the investment and people gradually made the shift over time - not because they were forced.

 

[08Malibu]

Back in 2016 I worked in a shop that repaired Teslas and BMWs. A lot of the BMWs belonged to BMW of North America. We did a few I3 electric BMWs. They couldn’t make it from their headquarters to the shop, about 25 minutes on the highway, without the range extender kicking in. I’m guessing the Batteries were shot and they were only a year old at the time.

 

[olds307 and 403]

To the kids that grew up during the new renaissance Muscle Era, where power kept growing, you missed a horrible time as well. I grew up in the 80's and 90's, born in 1975. Problem was, my parents were poor. That means, as a kid we had vehicles from the 1970's and early 1980's. Dad was a Ford man. Have you drove Ford's from that era, beyond horrible! Everything was at best, decently reliable, stuff from Oldsmobile mostly but severely underpowered. Our 75 Cutlass 4 door with an Olds 350, still had thing like the TH350 die in glorious smoke and 81 Delta 88 4 door, was very well taken care of before we got it. They were the reason I still love the Olds V8. Our 82 Dodge Diplomat Police Interceptor was kind of cool but typical Dodge finicky and my 77 Dodge Van ran like crap, almost always. You are looking through rose coloured glasses. Dealerships have to be struggling right now, ridiculous that GM or any company wants them to do huge, expensive upgrades and then pay them back. This is nothing new, it has been happening for years and is why they close their doors. The same thing happened at a local Dodge Dealer 20+ years ago. There has been two big battery improvements recently that should improve range a lot. It needs to double the current range to be practical up here. The other big upgrade that isn't going to come out of thin air, is the massive electrical infrastructure upgrade needed. Who is going to pay for that? I would like to see a Hydrogen infrastructure come in as well to slowly replace gas and diesel, then the ICE engine has a chance of surviving and give another alternative to 0 emissions.

 

[69hurstolds]

The fun and excitement of owning and/or building an EV doesn't enter the equation personally for me at all. I'm not interested in any EV atm. Converted or otherwise. Someday I may change my mind, but you're definitely more familiar with the devil you know. I've owned, worked on, and driven ICE vehicles probably longer than some of y'all have been alive, or at least sh*tting yellow. There are too many unanswered questions about wholesale EV ownership that nobody seems to be able to answer with any authority. The answers that everyone gives is about harmony and bliss about how cool an EV is. What if you're T-boned in one? How is the battery designed NOT to short and set you on fire after an accident? How long will the batteries last and how much is a replacement battery going to cost? Really. No guessing. How much? With the motor's instant torque, is there torque management systems with backups to keep your teenager from tearing out drive shafts? Everyone knows the pros and cons of ICE vehicles and supporting infrastructure if they've owned one.

Large scale EV conversion is not realized as of yet. It's not going to be a drop-in replacement right now, and many people incorrectly think it is or at least should be. Idiots think that if you just build an EV, people will buy one. Because only idiots would just buy one without infrastructure ready to accept them. Unfortunately for now, they just haven't worked out the kinks yet. And some aren't even known. ck80 phrased it nicely, some people, including me, are ok with progress in vehicle propulsion systems, but it shouldn't be a "this or nothing" approach. Look at how stupid and costly it can be doing that. One look at Germany and their (IMO) stupid off-hand closing of nuclear power plants, some of the cleanest and relatively cheapest electricity in the world if you're doing it right, is now costing them buku due to the current situations they're dealing with. They said close all nuke plants by 2022 after the meltdown in Fukushima. Now they're considering NOT shutting down the last three plants this year. Hmm. But they're still being rather presumptuous by declaring they're still going to get rid of coal power by 2038. And generate power by....what? Being dependent on someone else for fuel source isn't working out for them right now.

This situation we're all in may see the slowdown, or perhaps end, of globalization efforts. In other words, you don't know who your future friends/enemies may be, and you certainly don't want to be left without something you need or beholden to your once friend, now enemy, for any other thing. All it takes is one or two A-holes to ruin the party. Pretty apparent right now just looking at Europe dependent on someone else's fuel. So nations will start looking inward to ensure their own capabilities to manufacture and produce whatever it is that is needed. Sometimes it's not possible, but in those instances, don't rely on just one outside source. There used to be a directive when I was in the submarine fleet that ALL replacement parts be procured and manufactured in the U.S. Period. The idea was not to put your nation's defense in anyone else's hands but your own. Not sure if they blew that one up too, but that was the norm back then.

If people accept it, it will come, but not overnight. I remember the tiny screen picture phones when they were a big thing in Japan but it wasn't a thing here in the U.S. People in the U.S. looked at them as a teen thing, a toy. WTH is that? Phones aren't for taking pictures. Beepers were the thing. It was rather funny looking back at it. Eventually, the U.S. adopted them, too. Fast forward- Today, they're like a-holes, everyone is either is one, or has one. Even little kids. Everyone thinks they're a friggin' body cam nowadays and cost more than my first car.

 

[64nailhead]

Put a solar recharger in the trunk so it can be charging while at the car show.

This sounds pretty crazy until it isn’t. AFAIC, charging mass EV’s with a contained solar collection unit is less of a pipe dream than thinking our country will develop infrastructure to sustain an increase of 10-30%. And it would allow the vehicle, and owner, to be self reliant.

Like for Putin in Ukraine. (Ironically, given the impact on gas prices.)

This is one of my favorite discussions - *note discussions. The price of energy has nothing to do with supply and demand, only those that control the price.

Follow the money, because there is not an energy supplier in the US that has experienced an increase cost in the energy they have produced for the past 6 months.

Again, follow the money. Where is the extra money going that we are paying for energy that was produced 6 - 18 months ago?


Ya know I hate carburetors, but I have several in my basement and all the parts to rebuild and fix them. Along with 3 power plants to install. Some hoard guns, some hoard gold, me, ehhh? I have a good supply of butt connectors and wire 😉

 

[Clone TIE Pilot]

Computers killed muscle cars before EVs. First is all the nanny tech like DBW and traction controls. But the worst are the paywalls and proprietary software. Already you don't own the software, firmware, and tune that makes modern cars run. In modern cars you can't change anything without proprietary dealership service software to recalibrate thd PCM to accept it. Can't even change batteries in modern cars without needing to reset the PCM. Now there are over the air updates and upgrades to purchase for modern cars. Soon all sorts of upcharge options will be locked behind electronic paywalls. OEMs can also remotely change cars and even brick them, that is besides ths mandated government backdoors in the PCMs. Afterall that, thd differences in the physical powerplant doesn't matter much.

One of the reasons for the big EV push is control. Its easier to implement automation and remote controlling with EVs than with ICE. Lots of opportunities for BS like taxing for miles driven, mileage credits, etc.