Intercooled GN's or EFI 5L 5 spd Notchback Mustang's, which were faster bone stock?
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In the late 80s early 90s I had a 78 Cutlass with a 70 W30 455 in it and I raced a lot on 5.0 Mustangs and a few GNs and the GNs were always closer than the Mustangs . But saying that most of the Must guys couldn’t drive for sh*t.
We used 5L Mustang's as the high water mark because there were so few GN's in our area and they were quicker than the rest of GM's from that time period. I am quite shocked by these high 13 times, especially without slicks. The 350 gross HP Olds W31 4 spd with 3.91 gears ran mid 14's in the 1/4 with the shitty tires of the time. A magazine, at the time, got a brand new one, added headers( Olds expected it to happen), a better clutch, shimmed the rocker arms to eliminate valve float and added slicks, it ran 12's.
Usually magazine cars run faster, not slower than actual production line cars. Whether because they are ringers or the tester's were actually good drivers.
Usually magazine cars run faster, not slower than actual production line cars. Whether because they are ringers or the tester's were actually good drivers.
Hence the reason for the myriad of the 'Mustang fail' videos. At least the Hellcat guys don't get caught on video, only on the for sale block of 'parting out a Hellcat'
Grand national was faster, hands down.
Pulled a long compilation off a mustang board, and as noted most all times were done with 5spd cars.
Take your pick to contrast with a bone stock grand national, it'll beat those times.
Pulled a long compilation off a mustang board, and as noted most all times were done with 5spd cars.
Take your pick to contrast with a bone stock grand national, it'll beat those times.
I always thought the intercooled GN and TTA especially were quicker. There is a member here claiming the stock Mustang, talking 87 to 93 claimed high 13's and another guy on the Challenger site claimed the Mustang were high 13 second stock and the GN's were in the 14's at the track. The Challenger member claims it was back in the day as well. This all came out of the mysterious DOHC I6 with boost that has been a rumour for years.
Whelp, I tend to believe what a magazine put down for times because different guys have different ideas what bone stock means, and, you could take a time capsule 1990 GT with delivery miles, put modern tires, modern oil, etc into it, and you'll run a faster time than they ever did did 30 years ago.
Maybe different drivers might save 1/10 in the 1/4, but not a full second. When you've got different guys at a track though, there is nothing to say someone knows how to drive the car they brought, or that they weren't useless at cutting a light or spooling the turbo before launch.
Could also be these 'experts' are playing desktop dyno and don't understand buick underrated the horsepower on the gns both for insurance reasons and to fly inder the radar of the corvette-is-king execs at GM. When a grocery getter buick is showing up the corvette in reviews and at the strip, that was a major black eye that brought about lingenfelter and callaway models to try to restore some credibility.
Is a GN still bone stock if you cut the wastegate rod? You didn't add any parts. What about tire swaps.
An 84-85gn looks the same to an uninitiated as an 86-87. So they may not know the difference between the carb turbo cars, hot air SFI, and intercooled.
In fact, if you were a bystander and watched a 1985 gn go by and then a 1986 you couldn't tell the difference unless you happened to see that 8 inches was missing from a 2" strip of black plastic tucked underneath the front plate area under the bumper. Intercooler mounted behind the radiator, and every trim, emblem, wheel, option, all the same except of a TINY sliver of less than 1/4" tall intercooled word slapped together with the fender emblem... or with the hood open and you saw the IC relocated turbo/top end.
1986 car and driver tested the 87 GN... it ran a 13.9 sec quarter mile.
When the GnX was tested it did it in 13.5 sec.
As you can see from what the mustang guys compiled out of magazine reviews, the fix body struggled to ever break the 15 sec barrier.
I always thought it was funny... Mustang wasn't built to fight the grandnational.
It was Mustang vs firebird/camaro; 442/monte SS/GN vs... I guess analogous would be the thunderbird turbo coupe?
I wouldn't go on TikTok or a Mopar forum and bad mouth a GN but since I have one and am on this site. You guys will understand I am not biased in this opinion.
Quoting magazine times is a joke. I've had both cars and spent many days at the drag strip.
All these cars you mentioned, were separated by tenths. If something was left way behind or was half tracking the other car. Someone had a bad run or the other car was NOT stock.
Even 87 Corvette's were right on the heels of a GN. Same with musclecars from the 60's. So what if a magazine said they ran 14's. You never saw that at the drags or on the street. Big block machines were 10 to 13's second cars in the 90s
The Buick's production did not end due to shaming a Corvette. The entire G body full frame platform was outdated and ceased production. The one special model of a Regal was just a byproduct of this.
Also cutting a light has zero to do with E.T.
So even if the magazine proved 1 car is way faster but you go to the track and the same 1 car is always losing, who is right?
Also what is stock. Like ck80 said, adjusting boost or changing timing on a Mustang.
I wrote my time in the 1st page but the truth is the bone stock red 88 Mustang LX hatch which had 380,000 kms, burned a litre of oil every 1500km, was rusted to sh*t but it ran a legit, repeated 13.9@99mph. I don't know what moron runs a 5L in the 15's. Also had a 92 Mustang LX notch with minor bolt ons. It went 13.6@ 102.
What I recall from the 90's was the Mustang was a very affordable car. So by the time the GN which was twice the price, got boost, injectors, scanmaster and tires. Mustangs were showing up with nitrous and superchargers. So the debate of stock vs stock became a minor point.
Quoting magazine times is a joke. I've had both cars and spent many days at the drag strip.
All these cars you mentioned, were separated by tenths. If something was left way behind or was half tracking the other car. Someone had a bad run or the other car was NOT stock.
Even 87 Corvette's were right on the heels of a GN. Same with musclecars from the 60's. So what if a magazine said they ran 14's. You never saw that at the drags or on the street. Big block machines were 10 to 13's second cars in the 90s
The Buick's production did not end due to shaming a Corvette. The entire G body full frame platform was outdated and ceased production. The one special model of a Regal was just a byproduct of this.
Also cutting a light has zero to do with E.T.
So even if the magazine proved 1 car is way faster but you go to the track and the same 1 car is always losing, who is right?
Also what is stock. Like ck80 said, adjusting boost or changing timing on a Mustang.
I wrote my time in the 1st page but the truth is the bone stock red 88 Mustang LX hatch which had 380,000 kms, burned a litre of oil every 1500km, was rusted to sh*t but it ran a legit, repeated 13.9@99mph. I don't know what moron runs a 5L in the 15's. Also had a 92 Mustang LX notch with minor bolt ons. It went 13.6@ 102.
What I recall from the 90's was the Mustang was a very affordable car. So by the time the GN which was twice the price, got boost, injectors, scanmaster and tires. Mustangs were showing up with nitrous and superchargers. So the debate of stock vs stock became a minor point.
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But, it does have EVERYTHING to do with winning or losing races, establishing reputations, building legacies, earning bragging rights, and grounds for putrid misinformation.
I say this as a Hellcat owner. Talk about having a target on your back to start with, add in a manual transmission and lose to a turbo Civic and suddenly...
It doesn't matter that with an A8 there wouldn't be any discussion... the race is already over and the stories are trending on Instagram.
Ironically outrunning a Miata in a Hellcat on an autocross course doesn't generate the same folklore.
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