Hi, I'm new to these forums and am trying to figure out how I want to go about making my '84 El Camino handle better. I'd like to get tubular front control arms, as well as spindles that will help my car fly around corners. Sometime in the future, I'd like to get some monster brakes. I've got a ~420hp 383 I built, and the rear setup is pretty much done except for stickier tires. Any suggestions for the spindles that will help me carve corners?
Killer handling front end
- Thread starter pinstripebob
- Start date
- Status
you dont really need different spindles unless you want to lower the front end and get drop spindles to do that with.
you can get aftermarket upper & lower control arms, bigger front and rear sway bars, poly bushings, more aggressive springs, upgrade the tires and wheels to 17's and upgrade the brakes to the C5 vette ones or similar and get all of the various g-body frame braces.
i am currently running in the front
spoohn tubular lower control arms
Marcus' upper adjustable control arms.
1.42" front sway bar
moog hd springs w/ 700# rate
all poly bushings
ws6 f-body steering box 2.25 turns
13" C5 Corvette rotors, 2 piston ZO6 calipers and pads
modified stock spindles
in the rear i am running
8.5" rear axle 3.42 gears posi.
rear end girdle
1.375" rear sway bar
upper adjustable control arms
solid lower control arms
poly & sold bushing in the control arms
moog iroc springs and isolaters w/ 700# rate
12" LS1 disc brakes
for the body i am running
stock 3rd gen monte frame braces
F41 frame braces
grand national rear seat brace
grand prix front frame braces
i think thats its??
you can get aftermarket upper & lower control arms, bigger front and rear sway bars, poly bushings, more aggressive springs, upgrade the tires and wheels to 17's and upgrade the brakes to the C5 vette ones or similar and get all of the various g-body frame braces.
i am currently running in the front
spoohn tubular lower control arms
Marcus' upper adjustable control arms.
1.42" front sway bar
moog hd springs w/ 700# rate
all poly bushings
ws6 f-body steering box 2.25 turns
13" C5 Corvette rotors, 2 piston ZO6 calipers and pads
modified stock spindles
in the rear i am running
8.5" rear axle 3.42 gears posi.
rear end girdle
1.375" rear sway bar
upper adjustable control arms
solid lower control arms
poly & sold bushing in the control arms
moog iroc springs and isolaters w/ 700# rate
12" LS1 disc brakes
for the body i am running
stock 3rd gen monte frame braces
F41 frame braces
grand national rear seat brace
grand prix front frame braces
i think thats its??
well the stock g-body spindle's geometry does suck so changing them is not a bad idea at all. you could use mid 70's f-body spindles or AFX spindles (expensive but REALLY good), http://www.scandc.com/g5.htm (extremely expensive but includes brakes, and has even better handling), or the stock spindles with Howe tall ball joints (also from SC&C).
you don't need tubular lower front control arms unless you're racing(but they do save weight and can allow for more drop along with the better handling). just boxing them in will be good, and a hell of a lot cheaper. i'd use delrin bushings for the LCA. poly is good for compression areas like the sway bar but can bind in torsional applications. it depends on how hard you push and how much handling you want. you definately want an adjustable upper arm, like the SPC arms.
higher rate springs and HIGH QUALITY shocks are a must. bilstein or koni are your best bets. bilstein makes the HPS1000 (via hotchkis) that are for the g-body and stiffer lowering springs for about $90/e from summit.
i actually recommend the 1.25in g-body F-41 or f-body 36?mm front sway bars to start off with. they're cheap and easy to get from a junkyard. also get the g-body rear bar.
you may need to upgrade them later, but make that decision after everything else is in and you can see how it handles.
just remember, just because it's stiffer doen't make it better. you can easily go too stiff and then the car is very hard to control and the ride will suck. if you balance everything right you can have insane handling and not break your spine on every pebble.
right now i have boxed LCA's with delrin bushings, HPS1000 shocks, hotchkis springs, F-41 stock sway bar, poly sway bar bushings/links, F-41 frame braces, and ZQ8 bump stops up front. the rear has the stock sway bar (f-41), tubular arms w/poly bushings (changing to johnny joints soon), hotchkis springs and HPS1000 shocks.
the car stays FLAT and stable on all curves, and there are some good ones here.
you don't need tubular lower front control arms unless you're racing(but they do save weight and can allow for more drop along with the better handling). just boxing them in will be good, and a hell of a lot cheaper. i'd use delrin bushings for the LCA. poly is good for compression areas like the sway bar but can bind in torsional applications. it depends on how hard you push and how much handling you want. you definately want an adjustable upper arm, like the SPC arms.
higher rate springs and HIGH QUALITY shocks are a must. bilstein or koni are your best bets. bilstein makes the HPS1000 (via hotchkis) that are for the g-body and stiffer lowering springs for about $90/e from summit.
i actually recommend the 1.25in g-body F-41 or f-body 36?mm front sway bars to start off with. they're cheap and easy to get from a junkyard. also get the g-body rear bar.
you may need to upgrade them later, but make that decision after everything else is in and you can see how it handles.
just remember, just because it's stiffer doen't make it better. you can easily go too stiff and then the car is very hard to control and the ride will suck. if you balance everything right you can have insane handling and not break your spine on every pebble.
right now i have boxed LCA's with delrin bushings, HPS1000 shocks, hotchkis springs, F-41 stock sway bar, poly sway bar bushings/links, F-41 frame braces, and ZQ8 bump stops up front. the rear has the stock sway bar (f-41), tubular arms w/poly bushings (changing to johnny joints soon), hotchkis springs and HPS1000 shocks.
the car stays FLAT and stable on all curves, and there are some good ones here.
I already have some pretty nice springs, as well as a fat front rollbar and a 7/8" stock rear one. My front springs/shocks are QA1 coilovers, which gives me ride height adjustability. Adjustable uppers sounds like a great idea, especially for header clearance (which I ran into with the stock uppers, still there). I've heard that f-body or b-body spindles can cause interference issues. My thought was maybe drop spindles, use my coilovers to get the right height, and adjustable uppers. I've seen those aftermarket spindles, which would be awesome, but that dang price is just sky high.
QA1?--even better
i believe the interference issue you mentioned occur if you use the stock UCA's. with the SPC arms there woundn't be a problem, assuming i'm remembering this correctly
i know that a number of people have done it and really like it.
i did think of one other, but i don't know the specifics; late?-90's S-10/blazer spindles. they are also much easier to mount c5 brakes onto. i think they are a direct bolt in but have better geometry.
but your best geometry will be with a tall spindle design.
drop spindles have had some...issues. http://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16609 (mostly camaro's and nova's, but that's because they're dime a dozen) they don't improve your geometry at all, just raise the spindle position itself. you'd actually be better off with stockers and just set the QA's low.
i believe the interference issue you mentioned occur if you use the stock UCA's. with the SPC arms there woundn't be a problem, assuming i'm remembering this correctly
i know that a number of people have done it and really like it.
i did think of one other, but i don't know the specifics; late?-90's S-10/blazer spindles. they are also much easier to mount c5 brakes onto. i think they are a direct bolt in but have better geometry.
but your best geometry will be with a tall spindle design.
drop spindles have had some...issues. http://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16609 (mostly camaro's and nova's, but that's because they're dime a dozen) they don't improve your geometry at all, just raise the spindle position itself. you'd actually be better off with stockers and just set the QA's low.
What's overlooked too often is that you can upgrade your suspension all day but if you are running stock 15x7 wheels and thin tires all the efforts will come up short. As 78MC-BBC said, go with a 17x8 wheel with at least a 245 wide tire.
Go with the adj SPC arms so you can dial in a good amount of negative camber and positive caster. A tall upper and/or lower ball joint will allow you do so and can overcome the drawbacks of a short stock spindle.
Firms springs are a must. Moog 5658 and 5413 are good replacements and alternatives to high priced name brand springs. Also, don't confuse ride quality with firm handling. A Bilstein shock will give you good ride quality, firm springs and upgraded sway bars with give you firm handling. Also a factory 1.25 front sway bar will give you different results than a f-body 36mm (1.417") sway bar. Go with the 36mm or an aftermarket front sway bar. The rear sway bar at 7/8" is grossly undersized and should be upgraded to an 1" aftermarket sway as well. Firm springs alone are not enough to make a g-body into a corner carver.
Of course its relative to driving style and personal taste. What may be great results to one person might be inadequate to another.
Go with the adj SPC arms so you can dial in a good amount of negative camber and positive caster. A tall upper and/or lower ball joint will allow you do so and can overcome the drawbacks of a short stock spindle.
Firms springs are a must. Moog 5658 and 5413 are good replacements and alternatives to high priced name brand springs. Also, don't confuse ride quality with firm handling. A Bilstein shock will give you good ride quality, firm springs and upgraded sway bars with give you firm handling. Also a factory 1.25 front sway bar will give you different results than a f-body 36mm (1.417") sway bar. Go with the 36mm or an aftermarket front sway bar. The rear sway bar at 7/8" is grossly undersized and should be upgraded to an 1" aftermarket sway as well. Firm springs alone are not enough to make a g-body into a corner carver.
Of course its relative to driving style and personal taste. What may be great results to one person might be inadequate to another.
This is some good info. Forgot to mention that I DO have 17 x 7's for the front that I got yesterday, should be putting some wide meats on those. The backs will probably be 17 x 9.5s. I do have the coilovers set almost all the way down, but the problem I run into is (sorry I forgot the term here) the top of the wheels are way out in relation to the bottom, opposite of what I'm after. The sway bars I have now do work pretty darn well, and I've read some bad things about having a rear bar that's too big making the car not corner very well. I'll probably start with adjustable UCAs, see where that gets me. My thought with lowering spindles was that I could raise my car back up with the springs, stiffening them a little more and improving the geometry, although it would still be not what I'm after.
the term you're thinking of is camber. as seen from the front of the car, the top of the tire being outward past the bottom of the tire is positive camber. as seen from the side of the car, the upper ball joint being farther towards the rear of the car than the lower BJ is positive caster.
it's mostly from stock UCA's which are mounted to the outboard side. the aftermarket arms like SPC use offset cross shafts to pull the UCA inboard.
one guideline on lowering is that the lower ball joint should be at the same height as the LCA mounting bolts. if the bolts are lower then, you actually do need the proper tubular LCA's that are bent to correct the geometry. of course if you're that low you're killing large beetles and i hope you don't have to go over any speed bumps. :lol:
but seriously, i'd look at stock spindles with tall ball joints (which will lower the car about 1in w/out moving the LCA and improve the geometry) or tall spindles.
a really good guy to talk to is marcus at SC&C. he knows the g-body's and suspension really well.
it's mostly from stock UCA's which are mounted to the outboard side. the aftermarket arms like SPC use offset cross shafts to pull the UCA inboard.
one guideline on lowering is that the lower ball joint should be at the same height as the LCA mounting bolts. if the bolts are lower then, you actually do need the proper tubular LCA's that are bent to correct the geometry. of course if you're that low you're killing large beetles and i hope you don't have to go over any speed bumps. :lol:
but seriously, i'd look at stock spindles with tall ball joints (which will lower the car about 1in w/out moving the LCA and improve the geometry) or tall spindles.
a really good guy to talk to is marcus at SC&C. he knows the g-body's and suspension really well.
- Status
Similar threads
