Manual swap

Aug 15, 2024
2
6
3
61
Hi I’m looking for some help. I am thinking about swapping out my auto for a 4speed in my 83 el Camino . I think a 3 groove Saginaw might work with my rear end it’s a 2.41. My confusion at the moment is the type of shifter and mounting kit . There is like a million choices . I want to keep my bench seat. Any thoughts would be appreciated . Thanks!
 
1728581432486.png

I am using the 3:50 first gear Saginaw in my Bonnewagon. It has a Pontiac 301, 3:23 rear, and works quite well. The only way to keep your bench seat is to use the factory shifter and mount. It positions the shifter about six inches forward so it clears the dash and bench seat. A 2:41 rear is about the worst rear they used in our cars. It is great for highway mileage with low rpm. But it is very hard to get any sort of acceleration with those gears. The 3:50 first gear times the 2:41 rear gets you only 8.4 to 1 overall ratio. You will still be riding the clutch a bit to get going. My old 1981 Malibu wagon came with a 3:50 first gear three speed Saginaw, 2:41 rear. Just horrible gear spread. A 3:11 first gear 4 speed Saginaw with a 3:23 rear was much better. A 3:08 rear with that 3:50 4 speed trans would be nice too. This is the shifter and installation kit. See the special shifter mount at the top.
s-l500.webp
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Ugly1 and Rktpwrd
Both my 79 and my 80 Malibus came stock with 2.29 rears. I believe some of the mid-late 80s Cutlass models were delivered with 2.14 gearsets. I do have a 78 wagon that was originally a California V6 equipped car that has a 2.73 rear axle. My 49 State wagons all had either 241 or 256 gears. Auto makers were really struggling in that area to get some sort of mileage out of these cars and the only way they knew was to lower RPM via final drive ratio apparently
 
  • Agree
  • Like
Reactions: Ugly1 and Rktpwrd
I had one of each 2:41 and 2:73 in my 2 Olds’ 79’ was a V6 2:73 and the 78’ 442 had a 260cid w/2:41. Long story short, yes a BBO will smoke the tire of a 2:41 gear rear!😏
with the old school transmission you can buy the shifter hump to weld right in.
 
My '81 Monte was an original 229 with a 2.41 befor my V8/4 speed conversion. I used a 3.11 1st gear Saginaw which was OK & spun the one wheel wonder in all 4 gears but didn't live long. The replacement was a 2.29 which was the only rear handy at the time. It was good for gas mileage with fair take off but wasn't taking the lead at the light. Now it has a 2.73 which with the 3.11 is close to a 2.52 Muncie with a 3.08. This is the same combo that'll be in my boy's '79 Monte. It's all about doing the math compairing 1st gear/rear end gear combos to see what could act like the performance combos. A deep 3.50 could ley you go under 2.73 but might make 4th feel like over drive & won't me good for most in town driving.

Now for the shifter. Hurst does list a Comp Plus shifter for our cars but some years back discontinued the complete install kit with all but a few parts also being discontinued. The GM ITM shifter is out there but hard to find & not always complete. On good thing is the 3 & 4 speed share parts other than 3 & 4 speed specific parts. The GM installed Hurst shifters (used '78-'79 & mainly in Pontiacs) are very simular to the ITM other than the shift gate guts being Hurst design. They share the rods, arms & mounting parts. There is one Comp Plus on Ebay but they seller wants almost $1K for it. He also has a restored GM installed Hurst for the same amount. Regardless, the shifter mounting bracket needs a Saginaw with a flat side tail housing to fit the transmission. The side cover should have the back up light switch boss casted in like the factory stick cars.

Search the site & you can find a thread on making a Muncie or T10 work in the stock shifter location. I keep forgetting the member's name but he did a very good job on the modification.

If you want to use stock clucth linkage most of it is repopped but some parts are claimmed to fit but are far from able to. Have to find the correct '78-'81 A-body specific bellhousing. Most likely it'll be for a 10.4"clutch/153 tooth flywheel. I do believe gnvair has a 11" clutch/168 tooth flywheel bellhousing for sale on Ebay. The clutch fork is also specific to our cars. Then there is the firewall clutch rod boot. Currently El Camino Manufacturing owns the original GM boot molds but don't have a molder to make them or have any instock. They are currently trying to sell a 2nd gen F-body boot as a fit but doesn't. Most venders who have boots listed in stock also have them too. I'm working on finding a good alternate that'll work for the boy's car as we need one. Might be a good idea to even check out hydraulic throw out bearing which there are mount plates made for the slave cylinder mounting in our cars. The steel hump, plastic trim hump, boot & bezel are also repopped. Your original carpet might have the glued on under pad with the location for the hump precut. The hard to find part will be tring to get a '79-'81 manual shift column for the ease of keeping your original ignition lock & key if you want the original look but it won't have the wiper/turn signal switch but a little body work on the column shifter mount it'll look like a floor shift column.

There are possible used sources for the bellhousing like mechanical clutch linkage '82-'84 F-bodies with V8/4 speeds but I'm not 100%. The aftermarket TKX supose to have a stock location shifter for our cars but I never dug into that & not sure how much you really want to throw into this project. This would allow you to run a 3.42 or deeper rear gear.

You'll have to understand the best route to do this is based on budget, how original looking you want it, what you're willing to change to get the conversion done & would you might want to upgrade from a Saginaw to something stronger.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ugly1
Not knowing where you live, there is this gentleman on Craig’s list and I’ve seen him there for many years. Seems to buy/sell/ rebuild transmissions and shifters. He’s out of Vt. And has his phone number at the bottom of the listing.
IMG_7127.jpeg

There is another gentleman in Rode Island that is a G-body warehouse and may have a large amount of parts .
IMG_7128.jpeg

And last , these guys have been a great help for me and the have used parts as well if you call them they may have something, Dixie Restoration Depot out of Conn. you can find there link down at the bottom of the site here as they are a sponsor.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pagrunt
$1200 Saginaws?!?!

Back in the 80s, you'd be lucky to get $50 for one. Good Muncies were $250 and everybody thought the guy at the big swap meet was nuts asking $600 for completely gone-through late (big shaft) Muncie M21s

Now where did I put that time machine.......
 

GBodyForum is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to amazon.com. Amazon, the Amazon logo, AmazonSupply, and the AmazonSupply logo are trademarks of Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates.

Please support GBodyForum Sponsors

Classic Truck Consoles Dixie Restoration Depot UMI Performance

Contact [email protected] for info on becoming a sponsor