Are you tired of ?

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Injectedcutty

G body LS mafia
Nov 24, 2014
6,057
22,815
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Louisville, KY
Well I'll be. To reiterate, we're all going to jail. Thanks for clarifying. And I'm still glad I don't live in california.
Well, I guess that also means that 90% of the 10k plus cars rolling into Louisville this week for the street rod nationals are.....
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L92 OLDS

Comic Book Super Hero
Mar 30, 2012
2,872
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West Michigan
Your 5.3 experience is somewhat atypical. My brother has a 170k 5.3 (LM7) that doesn't leak or use a drop of oil. I have an 08 LMG that did have a DOD lifter ticking that I replaced, doing a cam swap and eliminating the DOD. Even with 4.10 gears, a cam, a 3200 rpm stall converter and my heavy right foot I can get 15 mpg avg. out of my truck.


Agreed. My brother is running an 04' Avalanche with a 5.3 and 257K on the clock. The engine has never been apart and still runs smooth and quiet.
 
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DRIVEN

Geezer
Apr 25, 2009
8,093
14,595
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*CENSORED*
ENGINE SWITCHING FACT SHEET UNITED STATES ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY WASHINGTON, D.C. 20460 March 13, 1991 OFFICE OF AIR AND RADIATION Pursuant to frequent requests for information received by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) regarding the legality and effects of engine switching, this document will summarize federal law and policy pertaining to this matter, and will discuss other related issues. A. Federal Law The federal tampering prohibition is contained in section 203(a)(3) of the Clean Air Act (Act), 42 U.S.C. 7522(a)(3). Section 203(a)(3)(A) of the Act prohibits any person from removing or rendering inoperative any emission control device or element of design installed on or in a motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine prior to its sale and delivery to an ultimate purchaser and prohibits any person from knowingly removing or rendering inoperative any such device or element of design after such sale and delivery, and the causing thereof. The maximum civil penalty for a violation of this section by a manufacturer or dealer is $25,000; for any other person, $2,500. Section 203(a)(3)(B) of the Act prohibits any person from manufacturing or selling, or offering to sell, or installing, any part or component intended for use with, or as part of, any motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine where a principal effect of the part or component is to bypass, defeat, or render inoperative any device or element of design installed on or in a motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine, and where the person knows or should know that such part or component is being offered for sale or is being installed for such use. The maximum civil penalty for a violation of this section is $2,500. EPA received many questions regarding the application of this law to a situation where one engine is removed from a vehicle and another engine is installed in its place. EPA's policy regarding "engine switching" is covered under the provisions of Mobile Source Enforcement Memorandum No. lA (Attachment 1). This policy states that EPA will not consider any modification to a "certified configuration" to be a violation of federal law if there is a reasonable basis for knowing that emissions are not adversely affected. In many cases, proper emission testing according to the Federal Test Procedure would be necessary to make this determination. 2 A "certified configuration" is an engine or engine chassis design which has been "certified" (approved) by EPA prior to the production of vehicles with that design. Generally, the manufacturer submits an application for certification of the designs of each engine or vehicle it proposes to manufacture prior to production. The application includes design requirements for all emission related parts, engine calibrations, and other design parameters for each different type of engine (in heavy-duty vehicles), or engine chassis combination (in light-duty vehicles). EPA then "certifies" each acceptable design for use, in vehicles of the upcoming model year. For light-duty vehicles, installation of a light-duty eng~ne into a different light-duty vehicle by any person would be considered tampering unless the resulting vehicle is identical (with regard to all emission related parts, engine design parameters, and engine calibrations) to a certified configuration of the same or newer model year as the vehicle chassis, or if there is a reasonable basis for knowing that emissions are not adversely affected as described in Memo 1A. The appropriate source for technical information regarding the certified configuration of a vehicle of a particular model year is the vehicle manufacturer. For heavy-duty vehicles, the resulting vehicle must contain a heavy-duty engine which is identical to a certified configura- tion of a heavy-duty engine of the same model year or newer as the year of the installed engine. Under no circumstances, however, may a heavy-duty engine ever be installed in a light-duty vehicle. The most common engine replacement involves replacing a gasoline engine in a light-duty vehicle with another gasoline engine. Another type of engine switching which commonly occurs, however, involves diesel powered vehicles where the diesel engine is removed and replaced with a gasoline engine. Applying the above policy, such a replacement is legal only if the resulting engine-chassis configuration is equivalent to a certified configuration of the same model year or newer as the chassis. If the vehicle chassis in question has been certified with gasoline, as well as diesel engines(as is common), such a conversion could be done legally. Another situation recently brought to EPA's attention involves the offering for sale of used foreign-built engines. These engines are often not covered by a certified configuration for any vehicle sold in this country. In such a case, there is no way to install such an engine legally. EPA has recently brought enforcement actions against certain parties who have violated the tampering prohibition by performing illegal engine switches. It should be noted that while EPA's policy allows engine switches as long as the resulting vehicle matches exactly to anv certified configuration of the same or newer model year as the chassis, there are some substantial practical limitations to performing such a replacement. Vehicle chassis and engine designs of one vehicle manufacturer are very distinct from those of another, such that it is generally not possible to put an engine into a chassis of a different manufacturer and have it match up to a certified configuration. Therefore, practical considerations will generally limit engine switches to installation of another engine which was certified to be used in that same make and model (or a "twin" of that make and model, e.g., Pontiac Grand Am and Oldsmobile Calais). In addition, converting a vehicle into a different certified configuration is likely to be very difficult, and the cost may prove prohibitive. B. State Laws Many states also have statutes or regulations prohibiting tampering in general. Most of these laws specifically prohibit tampering by individuals. A few specifically prohibit engine switching, using provisions similar to those stated in EPA's policy. To determine the state law in any given state, the state's Attorney General's office should be contacted. In addition, many states have state or local antitampering inspection programs which require a periodic inspection of vehicles in that area, to determine the integrity of emission control systems. Many programs have established policies for vehicles which have been engine switched. While EPA does not require these programs to fail engine switched vehicles which are not in compliance with federal policy, the Agency does strongly recommend that these programs set their requirements so as to be consistent with the federal law. State or local programs which pass illegally engine switched vehicles may mislead federally regulated parties into believing that engine switching is allowed by federal law.

Short version: you can't modify the emissions equipment on a vehicle through engine swapping to a vehicle without any or less equipment. You also can't downgrade or tamper with a engine's low emission configuration. You can only do an engine swap involving a newer engine, and you must include all of the emissions equipment from that newer chassis and no foreign engines that are not somehow certified for use in the US.

Moreover, if you read more of the rules than just the basic swap rule, you'll find rules that also state that if you can prove that the emissions are better, it's allowed. None the less- the intention is to make sure certified packages are kept intact. Basically because it's not realistic to be able to prove that the emissions are equal or better. However, the easiest way to prove that the engine that you put in is cleaner is to use everything from the newer engine. The Federal emissions test is hideously expensive to do, it'd probably be cheaper to just buy a new car which is what everyone wants you to really do!

The car or engine (whichever is newer) has a emission standard that it must meet. If you can't prove it, you can't do it. Aftermarket kits- catalyts, turbos, superchargers, etc- have to meet the same rules. That standard also includes OBD (depending on the year) and evaporative emissions. BTW, LS OBD enhanced Evap systems will not work with older non enhanced gas tanks like those found in G bodies, rendering all LS swaps except for the Erods crates, illegal in older cars. It works the other way too, every LS swapped older vehicle must have all the stock parts (gauge cluster, cats, stock enhanced evap stuff, everything) from the year vehicle the LS came out of.There are a lot more complex rules regarding newer engines and cars, newer the year the more strict the laws are.
Geez! Buzzkill much?
I take it your car is 110% factory showroom stock then? Probably feels good to sleep so well at night. I'm going to keep living in constant fear that EPA stormtroopers are going to break down my door, confiscate all my "illegal" cars, and send me off to polluter reeducation camp.
 
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Texas82GP

Just-a-worm
Apr 3, 2015
7,991
18,712
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Spring, Texas
Agreed. My brother is running an 04' Avalanche with a 5.3 and 257K on the clock. The engine has never been apart and still runs smooth and quiet.
I work at a land surveying company and I manage our fleet of trucks. We run 3/4 Silverados. Our oldest right now is an 09 with 190k miles on it. Our newest is a 16. Currently, we have 12 trucks in the fleet. I've only had a few issues. We had an 02, with a LQ4 with right at 200k miles on it that had a rear main seal leak. I had it fixed. I'm not complaining. The rest of the fleet are all the L96 6.0. One, a 2009 developed an oil leak where the engine oil cooler lines attach to the side of the oil pan. It had slightly more than 100k miles on it at the time. It was a serious oil leak and would have quickly led to a failure if the driver hadn't been alert. The biggest issue I had was recent. A 2015 with an L96, with just under 100k on the clock ate up a camshaft. Evidently one of the lifters spun in the lifter tray and chewed up the cam. The truck was fine one day, and came in the next making noise. It was a screeching noise. Initially I thought it was a pulley noise on the front of the engine but quickly realized the noise was louder under the truck. I then suspected the torque converter but in the end it was a failed lifter/lifter tray. GM replaced the cam and all 16 lifters under warranty. The engine seems fine but I'm sure there had to be some metal contamination that got to the bearings.

I'm guessing collectively the fleet has easily 800k miles on it and that is the only serious issue so I think they are pretty good motors.

I was pretty pissed when the lifter in my 08 Sierra started ticking. It was fairly low mile and I ran it for a good while ticking. I used it as excuse to do the Hot Cam swap and eliminated those DOD lifters. I've read of other early production DOD lifter failures so I know it isn't a total aberration, but overall, I think the platform is pretty bullet proof.
 
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gbodytoys

G-Body Guru
May 1, 2014
506
655
93
Detroit, MI
I love LS swaps. I could put EFI on my SBC, but I feel like I could get a pretty good used LS motor for that amount and turbo charge it later on down the line. I will definitely keep my current 383 and it'll go in my next car (G-Body Malibu, 442, or 65 Impala), but the Monte is destined for LS, remote starts, push button start, etc....
 
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307 Regal

Royal Smart Person
Oct 21, 2009
1,667
915
113
Northern Indiana
If you ever want to dump the 350, I'll take it off your hands for the low low price of free. :p

Be advised: It's going to show up with a bad cam. I'm not going to sleep well at night until this engine has been completely rebuilt. I highly suspect the front oiling passage is sub-par. It needs attention that I can't afford at the moment. Especially if your horsepower numbers are legitimate. I only hit 260hp after weather correction factor and 15% drivetrain loss. What's your compression again?

Geez! Buzzkill much?
I take it your car is 110% factory showroom stock then?

IIRC: He has a same-model-year fully-intact 305 HO in his Regal. All done by the book. Clone TIE Pilot has always taken this stuff very seriously. He actually wonders how we sleep at night, being the Rebel Scum that we are. (Star Wars references!! *ba-dum tss!!*)
 
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Dinosport

G-Body Guru
Jul 20, 2015
557
146
28
Ct
IIRC: He has a same-model-year fully-intact 305 HO in his Regal. All done by the book. Clone TIE Pilot has always taken this stuff very seriously. He actually wonders how we sleep at night, being the Rebel Scum that we are. (Star Wars references!! *ba-dum tss!!*)[/QUOTE]

Laughed @ being the rebel scum that we are.
 
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Clone TIE Pilot

Comic Book Super Hero
Aug 14, 2011
3,881
2,646
113
Galaxy far far away
The emperor is not as forgiving as I am. J/k.
 
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565bbchevy

Geezer
Aug 8, 2011
9,623
12,730
113
Michigan
My Dart Big M block was cast in 2016 does that mean I need emissions for that year in my Monte.
BigM-Sportsman.png
 
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TURNA

Rocket Powered Basset Hound
Jul 24, 2009
10,941
19,996
113
Socialist NY
I thought i was sick of seeing small block Chevys under every hood.

Then I started seeing the LS's in everything. :blam:


The jury is still out for me on them........
 
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