Build Thread: '87 442 . . . Time to turn and stop

[Texas82GP]

Yeah the front control arm bushings were a pain to get out. I have a press but couldn't get the lower control arm in there because the 'stub' that the bushing is in is so shallow. I ended up heating the bushing with a propane torch until the rubber was sizzling and then knocked the rubber out with a hammer and chisel. It was a messy approach but it got it done. Then I went after the sleeves with a dremel, a hammer and a chisel. I'm sure there's a better way but that's what I came up with. I had a shop up here close to work put the new bushings in. He has specialty tool 'cones' that he used to hammer the bushings in. I can totally see why people by new control arms. Restoring the old ones is a lot of work by the time you replace the bushings, balljoints and clean them up and paint them.

 

[xitabl442]

Ok, I'm going to chime in on this. First consider the SPC ucas from Summit, $237ea, do tall ball joints to match and hold off on the Hotchkis stuff. They are the same arms that SC&C sells, I had to notch the gusset on the frame at the uca bracket. You can't do a tall ball joint with stock arms. You will eliminate bump steer and be able to get 4* of caster. Plus the Howe ball joint for these arms are twice the diameter of stock.
You can add sway bars later and not need another alignment, save $100. Don't have to replace upper ball joints again save $? Don't replace the stock uca bushings and save your knuckles. Add more drivability now, plus you already have a decent sway bar up front with the F41.
My .02

 

[Canon_Mutant]

Hey, I want everyone to chime in. Though I am a lot more educated now that I was a few months ago, I am not the expert here so [agree or disagree] I do want to hear from you! And, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, I know that just taking off the stock arms, blasting, coating, and new bushings will be a PITA so why not just put in new ones? Well, the ones I was considering are $800-$1400 for the set and I needed to spend less money. I did NOT know, however, that you could not put longer ball joints in the stock arms? That is a deal killer for keeping them.

I've seen the SPC arms and they look comparably flimsy to me. Now, that doesn't mean that they are flimsy but look at the difference . . . I suspect there is a reason that Hotchkis, UMI, BMR, and others are adding heavy reinforcement between the 2 lateral tubes.

 

[xitabl442]

Unless there is a new style ball joint that allows the extra rotation needed to run a stock arm, I am pretty sure you have to upgrade the arms. Look at the end of the stock arm at stock height, now raise the end of it up to where a tall ball joint would place it and you'll see that the end of the stock arm is tilted upward at rest. Now take that arm and rotate it up to full compression as if you hit a bump and you would see that the tip won't allow the ball joint to rotate to vertical as if it were in the spindle.
I think the SPC arms are pretty stout, they set almost flat at rest and are shorter than the stock arms. The hardware is big, I will try to post up some pics tomorrow. One thing to consider is that all adjustments are made on the arm on the SPC arms. I think the others still require placing shims behind the cross shaft? This means the SPC arms will also free up some space behind the arms at the headers..
EDIT: I just looked and UMI has adjustable uppers for $450 pair w/o ball joints, that's less than the SPC and look like they take the same BJ. I would check with them first, but I would be leaning toward the UMI arms and tall ball joints. Do the sway bars later. Throw on some billet tie rod connectors while you're at it for $50.

 

[xitabl442]

I've seen the SPC arms and they look comparably flimsy to me. Now, that doesn't mean that they are flimsy but look at the difference . . . I suspect there is a reason that Hotchkis, UMI, BMR, and others are adding heavy reinforcement between the 2 lateral tubes.

I think the bracing on the arms pictured are for the bumpers, my arms just land on the frame if the wheel travels all the way down.[/QUOTE]

 

[xitabl442]

 

[Canon_Mutant]

Thanks for the pics. So, without the bump stop, what happens when your control arms smack the frame? EDIT: The SPCs do look a lot stouter "on the car!"

And, FWIW, I am back talking to UMI about their suspension package that is on sale for $3600. $600 more than I want to spend [now anyway] but it has new "adjustable" CAs along with everything else AND can go back to the adjustability [tweakability?] of Viking COs up front and Viking shocks out back . . . a luxury which I had given up on. I am just trying to get a price on adding fully boxed lowers and relocation brackets in exchange for the more expensive Delrin bushings [poly is good enough for me when properly lubed anyway] and taller BJs on the upper CAs only.

So my revised list may be changing again . . . stay tuned!

 

[xitabl442]

A friend of mine just went through this same decision for a 70 GTO. He was told that coil overs for a street car is not necessary, in fact NOT recommended by Mark at SC&C. He said you'll likely never adjust the ride height once set, unless you plan to track it. Spend your money on better shocks if you must. That said, I have Eibach springs and Edelbrock IAS shocks and am completely satisfied. I will note here though that I haven't driven my car for three years while it's been apart. But it's getting close to being back on the road.
As far as downward travel goes, I don't think it's ever hit while driving. That would be a big drop.

 

[Canon_Mutant]

Yeah, I am back in the springs and shocks camp again . . . starting to feel like the dog named Stay. Come here Stay. Stay come here. Damn it, come here, Stay. Stay, Come here! Sigh . . .

UMI finally got back to me and apparently isn't in the mood to swap anything in their stage 4 kit. Tried getting poly instead of delrin bushings since I don't want to feel every single pebble I run over and I only want longer upper ball joints instead of longer upper and lower . . . and, in return, I wanted fully boxed lower rear arms instead of tubular and relocation brackets added. I wanted them to apply the bushing and ball joint price difference toward the cost of the additions.

The response was "stage 4 already has delrin bushings and going to boxed lowers will add $30 and adding the relocation brackets will add an additional $130." I figured they must not have understood what I was asking so I tried to clarify and they just sent me an itemized list of what is in the stage 4 kit. So, if they don't want to deal, I am back to piecemeal-ing it all together from Summit, Spohn, Hotchkis, and UMI but you all have at least talked me into swapping in new front CAs instead of hassling with reworking my stock ones. Spohn has a set for $764 that look promising.

So, the new new new list . . . ~ $3225 keeping F41 sway bars [still much better than my original $5K list] to $3850 adding Hotchkis sway bars

From Summit: ~ $525

Eibach Pro Lowering Springs
Bilstein AK front and rear shocks

From Spohn: ~ $1800

Tubular Upper and Lower Control Arms w/super travel upper ball joints
Steering Rebuilt Kit
Wilwood Pro 12" rotors w/ 4 piston calipers front brake kit

From UMI: ~ $900

Boxed Lower Rear Control Arms w/ Poly-Roto Combo
Fully adjustable Upper Rear Control Arms w/ Poly-Roto Combo
Reinforcement Arms
Relocation Brackets

[later on if I am not happy with my F41 sway bars]

From Hotchkis: ~ $625

Front/Rear Extreme Sway Bars

 

[xitabl442]

Those UCAs from Spohn don't look to be adjustable, and the ball joint doesn't say it's taller than stock. Do you have any pics of your car, any reason you don't want to add tall lower ball joints? Is your car already going to be too low? They will improve the angle of your tie rod to lower arm, in stock form the tie rod drops more than the lower arm, they aren't parallel. So when the suspension travels up the wheel toes out slightly. Have you checked with SC&C? That's where I went for info 8 yrs ago when I put mine together. But I do like UMI, especially since they track one of these cars with all their stuff.