Build Thread: '87 442 . . . Time to turn and stop

[Canon_Mutant]

No, not a real update, but I've been confusing myself and perhaps some of you from day one on the cam I have in my big block. I started with the JM-22-25-10 which is a 230-236 D .512/.523 L which was just a bit too much for the ECM. I thought I backed down to a 226/230 .496/.512 but, when I went and looked, the next smaller Mondello cam was the JM-20-22 which is basically that Edelbrock Performer cam 224/234 .496/.520 so I assumed I yorglemeyered the numbers.

Anyway, I just found my cam card. I went straight to Engle since they did Mondello's grinds anyway and went with their 2720H and I had the right original cam specs 226/230 .496/.512. Pretty mellow by big block standards but "eventually" you will all get to hear it and experience remotely at least its performance.

Just correcting the record . . .

 

[69hurstolds]

Someone asked like 137 pages ago if I still have this?

Found it!

View attachment 81939

Nice. Need a laminated one for car shows, etc. so you won't have to risk this one? I'll send an example via IM.

 

[Canon_Mutant]

Well, actual progress would be preferred but, short of that, I had to go and run across these . . .

http://thorntonmusclecars.com/product/olds-cutlass-442

General Update:

I had pretty much decided to just go back and finish the project per its scope when I started, just get the ole girl running, and then hire the body separation, bushings, frame box, all new lines, etc. done at a shop I trust. Well, I have checked and there is NO ONE in the general area that I would trust to do this and, though there are likely shops down at OKC or up at KC that could take care of it, I don't know of any there either nor have any recommendations per say and do not want to just have it hauled way out of state somewhere [??].

Anyway, I already have the exhaust off the 87 to blast and coat [just surface rust] AND I knew when I bought it that my recent 67 addition needs a whole new exhaust system which I already have all the parts for that also needs a blast and coat before it goes on. My 67 manifolds are quite rusty though [look almost original] and the W/Zs on my 87 that I powder coated 13 years ago still look almost new.

So, the project expansion gremlins that live in my head are saying, 🤔, with the rearend and exhaust system already out of the way, separating the body, new gas and brake lines, properly boxing and then clean/coat the frame, new bushings, perhaps make a few changes I would not make otherwise would all be MUCH easier with the motor/transmission out of the way. And, with the motor/transmission out of the car, re-cam'ing it, convert to EFI [rest of the internals are good to go as is], and, when ready, the motor transmission goes back in with the above headers that I wouldn't mind having compared to conventional ones . . . and the still like new W/Z manifolds => to my 67's new exhaust.

Though I need my health to cooperate to get ANYTHING done, much less another expansion of project scope, I am going to have to finish this myself or it won't get done, period. Just no one local I trust to do it . . . Let "Bitchin Rides" take care of it for $100K? The Garage Squad or Overhaulin' fools? NOT!

I have asked for flow numbers on those headers compared to their W/Zs. We'll see if I get my wish?

Without doing a freakin poll . . . thoughts pros or con?

 

[Canon_Mutant]

OK. Simpler version.

Will separating the body from the frame, boxing the frame, blast/clean/coat, changing body bushings, finishing the entire front end suspension swap be easier with the motor/transmission out of the way? I suspect yes but looking for someone that's been there?

My firewall and engine cradle could use some TLC for purely show purposes after 13 years. Engine mainly needs cleaned but could use some touch up on it here and there while it's out.

I know [ALL TOO WELL] the ever expanding project scope when I'm struggling with my health to finish what the project was when I started seems counter productive but, though the swap to Holley EFI, more cam, Thornton headers is certainly not necessary, everything else is and [just given a good day] I can have that motor and transmission out in a couple hours. Done it enough times it is pretty much muscle memory at this point. But also don't want to do it just to do it either . . .

 

[fleming442]

Garth, I haven't done a body off, but I have done some under car welding on jackstands- AND, IT SUCKS! Some of the more hardcore will call me a pu$$y, but if you can get the frame out from underneath to do the work you describe, I'd DEFINITELY take that route. Especially since that one bolt for the fuel lines on the rear crossmember is an absolute beeeotch to get to with the body on.
W/Z manifolds: yup, put the nice ones on the 67, and blast the 67 ones to replace the 87's. I'm not sold on the Thorton shorty headers; they just look full of compromise to me. Now, replacing the ball joint with a v-band and flipping them around backwards for a turbo, that's an entirely different story.
As far as cam goes, why the switch? Putting a roller in? I would; call Bill Travato at BTR for one of his grinds. I can't say enough good things about what he spec'd for my 468. It goes against all the "wow factors" that trigger gearhead's dreams of horsepower greatness. I recall thinking "Man, that looks puny on paper (.491/.510, 236/242 on a 110)", but his claim of "wicked throttle response" was spot on!!! Have all your engine specs on hand when you call.
EFI: are you done yet?

 

[pagrunt]

Garth, I haven't done a body off, but I have done some under car welding on jackstands- AND, IT SUCKS! Some of the more hardcore will call me a pu$$y,...

Sometimes it's smarter to be called one than finding all the extra work that will have to be done.
Just make sure there is atleast on other person there cause doing it by yourself really sucks. For how I did mine I'd be in the crazy/lucky/stupid category.

 

[Canon_Mutant]

Ah, hey, given this 800 CCC I reworked to feed this BBO is EFI snappy as is, there is no need to move to EFI unless I add CFM up top, add more cam to move the CFM through (cam card above is a fairly mellow BBO grind) and then headers to move CFM out, to bump the HP. Heads are good to go ~ Edelbrock mildly ported and port matched with my Edelbrock intake - all 8 holes within 3cfm. All forged balanced 425 internals and 10:1 CR are also good to go as is.

Unlike the ones that show up on the Thornton Website that are basically W/Z manifolds with casting removed, I would have to think these actual shorty headers below would at least outflow my manifolds ~ improvement. Otherwise, going inside the motor is moot. 450/550 numbers are nothing to sneeze at (ah-choo)!

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5335822911&icep_item=183545012404

 

[olds307 and 403]

I agree, they just have less restriction than manifolds. A casting has rough spots and are not as contoured as round pipes and therefore more restrictive and have less area for flow. Yes, they make less power but no over heated starters, contacting multiple place and dragging the ground or pay $1000 to $1500 for a good set.

 

[Canon_Mutant]

Well, thanks to the "redneck rotisserie" idea from Algershick I am leaving "overwhelmed" mode back to a plan. As slow as I move, it may take a couple weeks just to get the body and frame completely disconnected but I already have the rearend, control arms, and [naturally] rear springs/shocks out and frontend spindles, upper/lower CAs, springs, shocks too . . . not a whole lot more to go to get it ready to separate.

Probably spend tomorrow just getting the shop next to the car cleared and cleaned so I can slide the frame out later.

Got a 4 swivel heavier duty engine stand attaching up front. The other is just 2 wheel swivel and lighter weight so that will be a challenge but I can also remove the 2 non-swivel and move them around 90 degrees, drill a hole, so they roll laterally instead of forward/backward.

Then bumpers off and I can get the front sent off for the lip/splitter design.

And . . . whatever else I'm not thinking of yet?

Looks to me that if the frame can come down, the body only needs 15-18" for the motor to clear but there could be something else in the way I haven't seen yet.

Just glad to be "going" again.

 

[Clone TIE Pilot]

Don't be surprised if any of the body bushing frame mounts will require welding in repair washers. Especially passenger side #2 mount.