The aftermarket mini starters without the nose cones fit right on and work. I used one and it worked great, plus it is cheaper.
Can't Decide 76 Toro with a 455
- Thread starter 307 Gutless
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I put actual WZs on my '87 442 big block conversion and have never looked back. Those repros are just as good. Now, if I ever get this back on a track where the high end HP limits become problematic I "might" consider going with headers but that is highly unlikely. Plus, they were the best flowing manifolds Olds ever made and GM period "from that era".
Greetings Guys; Well I read most of this & most of you guys won't like what I say. Have ya ever seen Jay Leno's Toronado? I say restore the Toro, their rare, exclusive, unique & ya won't see another one like yours if you personalize it. 10 years you'll know I'm right. GM made millions of "G" cars, their like dog hair (or they use to be), their everywhere! And of course I love them as I owned mine for coming up 38 years. The "G's" may be the best hot rods GM ever made, they just forgot the TORQUE & HP options from the factory, we had to finish their (GM's) job. Ya can always find an engine for your "G" maybe an LS, but just try and find another a cool Toronado?? Good Luck Ole' Bob.
The name will remind me of My Humble Beginnings.
Temporarily I want to rebuild the 307 just to practice on a cheap engine. I'll keep it in the Toronado till I can give it something else.
My coworker asked her mother in law to try and bring up the car today and of course the Battery was dead. So they are going down to her place this weekend to get it juiced up. I have to wait till next week when she brings it to work.
Side question, Anyone ever heard of someone putting an Eldorado Fascia on a Toronado?
The Eldorado is one of my favorite looking cars ever and I've wanted one since I was a kid.
Cool. I'll keep it cheap at first too. But Man I bet cross-member back exhaust and an intake Manifold will really wake that 455 up.
do it, you'll love it. one of the easiest swaps to do.
here is some info to help you out that i learned when i did mine.
other then the long block, almost everything but the long block is specific to a toro.
-oil pans, yes the toro pan and 307 pan will interchange. if you going to keep the toro running with the 307, you'll need to swap pans. if the toro goes to the big junk yard in the sky, then you don't need to swap pans. as far as the toro pan holding more oil, i heard yes and no on that.
-oil filter adapter, the toro has a different oil filter adapter or mount than the 307. this must be swapped or it will hit the exhaust.
-motor mounts, use the mounts and saddles from the 307. the they fit and work fine.
-fly wheel, use the toro fly wheel. but i believe the 307 would work also.
-starter, you can begin with using the 307 unit, but save money for when it goes out, then get one for a rwd mid 70s olds with a 455.
-exhaust manifolds, toro manifolds will stay with the toro, both of them. on a budget, use the 307 manifold, but you will find them very restrictive. save up and buy the 442 w30 repro manifolds, there much better but are still known to rob 50hp from you. i used the w30 manifolds. with 2.25" pipes. 2.5" pipes would work also, but with these manifolds, 3" exhaust is a waste of money do to the collector flange on the manifolds are only 2.25" is diameter.
-headers, they are a crap shoot. because the 455 is 1" taller and approximately 1.5" wider, it throws a monkey wrench into the equation. the narrow frame of the body, control arm location and steering shaft proximity makes it difficult. hooker makes a set, but one tube on each side is routed over and the frame and through the wheel well. these are meant for drag racing. and may cause tire rub when turning. there may be others but the manufacturing allowances were so loose back then, that you won't know till you try.
-valve covers, stock ones fit just fine, with or with a/c, or whether you have large or small brake booster.
-accessories, p/s, alt and a/c should all swap over. because the 455 engine block height changed, olds added a spacer between the alt and p/s pump brackets. a/c should fit with the a6 compressor, olds ran this compressor on 78 cutlass and maybe a few other early years while they were transitioning to the compressor. but finding the a/c manifold hose is difficult. you may need to make a customer hose. if you stay with the r4 compressor, you'll need to modify the brackets to sit the 455. not hard, i did it.
-cooling fan, toro unit maybe the a 7 blade unit, keep it and try it out.
-radiator, when i did my swap , i had a brand new 3 row radiator in the car and the eng ran hot. there were no aluminum radiators that were designed for cutlass back then. i installed a universal one. give your stock 307 unit a try. your toro radiator will not fit, its way to big, and it weighs a ton. turn it for scrap and buy a dinner.
-intake manifold, yes the intake is shorter in height, i mean it is sunken into the valley of the eng. but this is not why the eng only has 210hp. olds was making tons of hp with this style of intake in late 60s. the problem your going to have is if you stay with the toro intake, you won't be able to run a carb with a tv cable because there is no room for the linkage. the carb pad sits below the intake runners. if your running a stick then this would be ok. if you find a stock non toro intake, you'll run into the other problem, maybe not enough hood clearance. i have a stock non toro intake, quadrajet and air cleaner on my 79, it clears. if i stepped up to an edelbrock, i would hit the hood.
-distributor, all the olds units will interchange. the toro will come with an hei unit, keep it.
- transmissions, what ever trans you pick, make sure you have a quality torque converter in it. i have ripped the stator out of a stock 200-4r tans. and don't go crazy on the stall, you'll have close to 500ft lbs of torque at your disposal. and it startes just off of idle. same with the rear gears, these motors don't like to rev unless you build them. talk to a few trans shops for the converter recommendation and be honest with your eng power and driving style to get the right match.
-transmission/flywheel inspection cover, it may fit and may not. i had poor luck finding one that fit. maybe someone else has more info
hoo, sorry, i had a stream of conciseness and couldn't stop. i hope i answered any questions you may have. if not, just ask. joe
here is some info to help you out that i learned when i did mine.
other then the long block, almost everything but the long block is specific to a toro.
-oil pans, yes the toro pan and 307 pan will interchange. if you going to keep the toro running with the 307, you'll need to swap pans. if the toro goes to the big junk yard in the sky, then you don't need to swap pans. as far as the toro pan holding more oil, i heard yes and no on that.
-oil filter adapter, the toro has a different oil filter adapter or mount than the 307. this must be swapped or it will hit the exhaust.
-motor mounts, use the mounts and saddles from the 307. the they fit and work fine.
-fly wheel, use the toro fly wheel. but i believe the 307 would work also.
-starter, you can begin with using the 307 unit, but save money for when it goes out, then get one for a rwd mid 70s olds with a 455.
-exhaust manifolds, toro manifolds will stay with the toro, both of them. on a budget, use the 307 manifold, but you will find them very restrictive. save up and buy the 442 w30 repro manifolds, there much better but are still known to rob 50hp from you. i used the w30 manifolds. with 2.25" pipes. 2.5" pipes would work also, but with these manifolds, 3" exhaust is a waste of money do to the collector flange on the manifolds are only 2.25" is diameter.
-headers, they are a crap shoot. because the 455 is 1" taller and approximately 1.5" wider, it throws a monkey wrench into the equation. the narrow frame of the body, control arm location and steering shaft proximity makes it difficult. hooker makes a set, but one tube on each side is routed over and the frame and through the wheel well. these are meant for drag racing. and may cause tire rub when turning. there may be others but the manufacturing allowances were so loose back then, that you won't know till you try.
-valve covers, stock ones fit just fine, with or with a/c, or whether you have large or small brake booster.
-accessories, p/s, alt and a/c should all swap over. because the 455 engine block height changed, olds added a spacer between the alt and p/s pump brackets. a/c should fit with the a6 compressor, olds ran this compressor on 78 cutlass and maybe a few other early years while they were transitioning to the compressor. but finding the a/c manifold hose is difficult. you may need to make a customer hose. if you stay with the r4 compressor, you'll need to modify the brackets to sit the 455. not hard, i did it.
-cooling fan, toro unit maybe the a 7 blade unit, keep it and try it out.
-radiator, when i did my swap , i had a brand new 3 row radiator in the car and the eng ran hot. there were no aluminum radiators that were designed for cutlass back then. i installed a universal one. give your stock 307 unit a try. your toro radiator will not fit, its way to big, and it weighs a ton. turn it for scrap and buy a dinner.
-intake manifold, yes the intake is shorter in height, i mean it is sunken into the valley of the eng. but this is not why the eng only has 210hp. olds was making tons of hp with this style of intake in late 60s. the problem your going to have is if you stay with the toro intake, you won't be able to run a carb with a tv cable because there is no room for the linkage. the carb pad sits below the intake runners. if your running a stick then this would be ok. if you find a stock non toro intake, you'll run into the other problem, maybe not enough hood clearance. i have a stock non toro intake, quadrajet and air cleaner on my 79, it clears. if i stepped up to an edelbrock, i would hit the hood.
-distributor, all the olds units will interchange. the toro will come with an hei unit, keep it.
- transmissions, what ever trans you pick, make sure you have a quality torque converter in it. i have ripped the stator out of a stock 200-4r tans. and don't go crazy on the stall, you'll have close to 500ft lbs of torque at your disposal. and it startes just off of idle. same with the rear gears, these motors don't like to rev unless you build them. talk to a few trans shops for the converter recommendation and be honest with your eng power and driving style to get the right match.
-transmission/flywheel inspection cover, it may fit and may not. i had poor luck finding one that fit. maybe someone else has more info
hoo, sorry, i had a stream of conciseness and couldn't stop. i hope i answered any questions you may have. if not, just ask. joe
Jay leno has a 66 which is way prettier and the RWD conversion Makes it Bad to the bone
I don't hold the 76 in the same league. All the 76 Toronado body really does for me is make me wish it was a Cadillac.
The Big block is so perfect for my Cutlass, But I am conflicted on the subject. that's why I made the Thread.
But if I could do an Eldorado fascia Swap with a Cadillac 500 that would Be Freaking awesome IMO.
Cool. I guess I can just wait and see if it's good enough. sounds like it should be fine
I appreciate the Input. I also did a crap ton of research on it. everyone seems to have different tips and I want to be as prepared as I can with Parts before Starting but It sounds like No matter what I'll make multiple trips to the Parts store or Junk yard after I get started.
Even though I want to Drag race I want to drive the car.
Can't imagine what a pain a 2500 Stall would be like. I don't want to race launch at stop lights and parking lots.
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