Carb Cheater

[ck80]

I'm trying to think how it would have any effect on the cranking up on a cold or warm morning. It's probably not going to register anything until it's running since the AFR probably won't be changing much until it fires.

For 1/10th the cost a guy could buy some decent carb books and learn to fix the problem, permanently, rather than TRY to mask it over.

 

[Clone TIE Pilot]

I don't think it does anything to the carb itself. It just messes with the AFR and using the wideband, it modulates a vacuum/purge valve to open and add air when AFR is too rich, and closes when it's too lean. MOST conventional (non-CCC) carbs are set on the rich side, so a calibrated and controlled vacuum leak will "correct" the AFR, or at least send it in the right direction, and helps band-aid the issue. Obviously continous readout and variability makes it respond. The shorter the vacuum lines, the better the feedback. If you have a stubborn carb you can't get tuned right, this may help. But for $383 for the rather simplistic kit...I don't know if it's not worth learning how to tune your carb yourself. For that kind of money you could just about get a good rebuild on your current carb. Just my opinion.

The ECM on CCC cars does just the opposite. It meters the fuel through the mixture control solenoid to try and strive for that 14:7 magical AFR among other things.

The CCC doesn't just starve the carb for fuel. The M/C solenoid is connected to the idle air bleed valve. This means the M/C solenoid controls fuel flow and airflow to the idle air bleeds. The main fuel needles and the idle air bleed valve "dance" to obtain an average fuel mixture of 14:7 at idle and cruise. However, during WOT the CCC Qjet goes to a richer mixture as a power mode.

 

[rfpowerdude]

14:7 magical AFR among other things.

obtain an average fuel mixture of 14:7

I've seen 14:7 twice now in this thread. It's 14.7:1 air to fuel for gasoline.
Sorry, just call me an anal retentive azzhole

 

[69hurstolds]

I've seen 14:7 twice now in this thread. It's 14.7:1 air to fuel for gasoline.
Sorry, just call me an anal retentive azzhole

It was a typo, you anal retentive azzhole.

Yeah, that bugs the OCD'ers out there. I think you only hit 14.7:1 maybe two or three times per day if you're lucky regardless of which fuel delivery method you use. It's just the goal. Nothing more.

 

[Built6spdMCSS]

I tune my stuff to hit base 14.6, maybe even a hair fatter to compensate for the 10% ethonal. Yea there's lean cruising etc, but in power it's a hair fat too.

 

[Clone TIE Pilot]

It was a typo, you anal retentive azzhole.

Yeah, that bugs the OCD'ers out there. I think you only hit 14.7:1 maybe two or three times per day if you're lucky regardless of which fuel delivery method you use. It's just the goal. Nothing more.

The needles and idle air bleed valve dance to achieve an average (mean) of 14.7:1 "air to fuel ratio," during idle and part throttle crusing. The M/C solenoid cycles at 10 hertz or 600 times a minute. So for any given minute during idle and part throttle, if you take n readings of the air fuel mixture, add them together and ÷ by n you will get a mean near 14.7:1. As n gets larger, the answer will approach closer and closer to 14.7:1. Of course WOT blasts would change the mean richer as the system goes full rich at WOT.

This is also why when using a dwell meter on a CCC syetem you always use the 6 cylinder scale for the M/C solenoid. With the 6 cylinder scale you get 3 standard deviations above and below the 30 degree meme.

 

[rfpowerdude]

The M/C solenoid cycles 60 times a minute.

I thought it was 10 times per second meaning 600 times per minute. My old age could have that wrong though.

 

[69hurstolds]

The needles and idle air bleed valve dance to achieve an average (mean) of 14.7:1 "air to fuel ratio," during idle and part throttle crusing. The M/C solenoid cycles 60 times a minute. So for any given minute during idle and part throttle, if you take n readings of the air fuel mixture, add them together and ÷ by n you will get a mean near 14.7:1. As n gets larger, the answer will approach closer and closer to 14.7:1. Of course WOT blasts would change the mean richer as the system goes full rich at WOT.

This is also why when using a dwell meter on a CCC syetem you always use the 6 cylinder scale for the M/C solenoid. With the 6 cylinder scale you get 3 standard deviations above and below the 30 degree meme.

But herein lies the major issue- it can only do that if everything is set properly out of the gate. People jack around with the IABV and solenoid height positions, and even rich/lean stops all the time and when those are out of whack, the CCC system can only do so much within the confines of its abilities, so you may never see 14.7:1 again after Johnny Hamfist gets done monkeying with stuff. And then you hear the cries when they get 10 mpg and burning eyeballs when the engine is running. The 80s carbs were emissions first, and any performance gains at all were simply cherries on top.

Is the Carb Cheater a good system to control vacuum leaks to "fix" maladjusted, over-rich carburetors? Maybe for some. If you don't have a clue on what you're doing with a carb, it might be of some use. But again, spending almost $400 to adjust an air leak seems rather back assward to me. A carb that's set up properly won't have all those issues.

I do like the idea of the wideband sensor, but then use that to set up your carburetor correctly and you should see no use for that Carb Cheater system. And you can get a decent AEM kit for 1/2 the price of a Carb Cheater. And even if you don't want to permanently mount the gage, just find an inconspicuous place to install the bung on the exhaust pipe, then just use a pipe plug to close up the sensor bunghole when not in use until you need it again.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/avm-30-0300?srsltid=ASuE1wQQ22Xx3cFzSF0Cp90jB8T1BPKqDV8c7fMYOqAqx_knVfKRTzGPSXw

 

[Clone TIE Pilot]

I thought it was 10 times per second meaning 600 times per minute. My old age could have that wrong though.

You are right, its 10 times a second or 10 hertz.

 

[Clone TIE Pilot]

But herein lies the major issue- it can only do that if everything is set properly out of the gate. People jack around with the IABV and solenoid height positions, and even rich/lean stops all the time and when those are out of whack, the CCC system can only do so much within the confines of its abilities, so you may never see 14.7:1 again after Johnny Hamfist gets done monkeying with stuff. And then you hear the cries when they get 10 mpg and burning eyeballs when the engine is running. The 80s carbs were emissions first, and any performance gains at all were simply cherries on top.

Is the Carb Cheater a good system to control vacuum leaks to "fix" maladjusted, over-rich carburetors? Maybe for some. If you don't have a clue on what you're doing with a carb, it might be of some use. But again, spending almost $400 to adjust an air leak seems rather back assward to me. A carb that's set up properly won't have all those issues.

I do like the idea of the wideband sensor, but then use that to set up your carburetor correctly and you should see no use for that Carb Cheater system. And you can get a decent AEM kit for 1/2 the price of a Carb Cheater. And even if you don't want to permanently mount the gage, just find an inconspicuous place to install the bung on the exhaust pipe, then just use a pipe plug to close up the sensor bunghole when not in use until you need it again.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/avm-30-0300?srsltid=ASuE1wQQ22Xx3cFzSF0Cp90jB8T1BPKqDV8c7fMYOqAqx_knVfKRTzGPSXw

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Most of the performance gains that can mechcanically be done is on the secondary side, the power mode. In power mode at high throttle angles, the CCC Qjet functions like a non CCC Qjet. The primaries mainly can only be changed through PROM tuning. At crusie most cars need little power. I saw acYoutube vidro of a guy showing how his modern V8 truck was only putting out 58 hp to maintain highway crusing speed. Youbonlybneed high hp for acceleration.