Four dollar gas

[85 Cutlass Brougham]

As for Iraq, we had good intelligence, as did France, Germany, Great Brittan, and Russia, that they were attempting to build WMD's. They may well have been and they could have shipped their technology to Syria immediately following the invasion. There were convoys of trucks leaving the country at this time, after all. They also were known state sponsors of terrorism. For example, they gave $25,000 to the family of any suicide bomber who attacked Israel. Iraq also attempted to assassinate Bush 41 on a visit to the middle east. Why did the rest of the world not choose to follow us? Many of them were dirty, and were trading arms for oil, or getting kick backs from Iraq--including the son of the Secretary General of the UN, Kofi Annan. French weapons and technology were found in Iraq after the invasion, and they had been produced within a few months before the invasion. Russia was also selling them weapons and they did not wish to lose a valuable trading partner. After all, arms production is the Russian Federation's number one export, followed by oil and vodka.

 

[R/T kota]

they were attempting to build WMDs?
When Bush first went in there, he said they had them.
I guess when you are proved wrong, you have to change the storey a bit.

25,000 to any suicide bomber that attacked Isreal?
Not America`s problem. Israel has their own military.

Convoys of trucks leaving Iraq?
Maybe people were getting out because they were about to be attacked by the good old USA again.

Attempted to assassinate Bush Sr, Maybe some of them were a bit pissed after the first gulf war.

It is an unjust war and the USA has no business being there. That is why the UN never backed you up and why Canada and France and alot of other countries that have no ties in Iraq did not follow.
I'll say it again because alot of you dont seem to see it, Bush family money comes from oil. Starting wars in oil rich countries drives the price of oil up on the stock market. The Bush family and all the other oil rich families get richer.
I usually don't get involved in politics especially when it comes to U.S. politics, but what your president is doing is effecting the whole world and not just protecting the USA as alot of you see it.
He is hiding it all behind patriotism and protecting a nation.

 

[megaladon6]

as a matter of fact iraq did have WMD's. it's a highly known fact that they had bio/chem factories dating back to the 70's and 80's. and hussein has used them. hell, remember the chem attack scares during the persian gulf war? scud missiles with sarin gas ring a bell?
as to nuclear warheads, no they did not have complete ones. but they were trying to build them and aquire fuel.
and considering how paranoid huessein was and how locked down iraq was do you really think that he's going to let people leave in military truck convoys? get real.
a couple of final points, the UN never backs us up. they always want our troops and money though. during UN mission like bosnia and somalia the US troops are always put in first last and always. but if they get their *ss in a crack, there's no support.
and france doesn't have an interest in iraq???? what are you nuts? france has been selling weapons and tech to the middle east, especially iraq, for decades. france built the command and control bunkers, trained half the iraqi air force and provided things like SAM sites and anti-tank missiles without the peskt political interferience of the soviet union.
and if there was no terrorist connection with iraq, how come al quaida members were caught/killed there in the early days and terrorist activities there from day one?
the only thing i really fault bush for in iraq is that if you fight a war, then let your troops FIGHT! like in vietnam, we are letting politics and the "rights" of the enemy overshadow military considerations.

 

[joe_padavano]

Ron Paul was the anwser, but sense he wont win Go Clinton.
I'm sure another clinton can cut the deficit as much as bill did.
Sad they only get to stay in office for 10 years.
Bill Clinton could have had us almost in the green by now.

Sorry, but the only reason Slick Willie "cut" the deficit was because the idiots who overpaid for dot-com stocks ran the prices to unsustainable levels. This ran the stock market up, which in turn led to unrealistic predictions of tax revenue for the government. Remember the infamous federal budget surplus of 1998-1999? It was based solely on projections that the stock market would continue to grow for the next ten years at the same (unrealistic) rate it had been growing during the late 90s. Of course, reality set in, the dot com bubble burst, and that mythical surplus became a deficit. Dubya may be an idiot, but blaming him for "losing" that surplus is unfair.

Oh, and any resemblance between the dot com boom and bust and today's housing market is purely NOT coincidental. People are STILL idiots looking for a fast buck.

 

[megaladon6]

idiots who overpaid for dot-com stocks ran the prices to unsustainable levels. This ran the stock market up, which in turn led to unrealistic predictions of tax revenue for the government. Remember the infamous federal budget surplus of 1998-1999? It was based solely on projections that the stock market would continue to grow for the next ten years at the same (unrealistic) rate it had been growing during the late 90s. Of course, reality set in, the dot com bubble burst, and that mythical surplus became a defici

is it just me, or does this sound familiar. if you change dot-com to oil... or housing.

 

[R/T kota]

as a matter of fact iraq did have WMD's. it's a highly known fact that they had bio/chem factories dating back to the 70's and 80's. and hussein has used them. hell, remember the chem attack scares during the persian gulf war? scud missiles with sarin gas ring a bell?
as to nuclear warheads, no they did not have complete ones. but they were trying to build them and aquire fuel.
and considering how paranoid huessein was and how locked down iraq was do you really think that he's going to let people leave in military truck convoys? get real.
a couple of final points, the UN never backs us up. they always want our troops and money though. during UN mission like bosnia and somalia the US troops are always put in first last and always. but if they get their *ss in a crack, there's no support.
and france doesn't have an interest in iraq???? what are you nuts? france has been selling weapons and tech to the middle east, especially iraq, for decades. france built the command and control bunkers, trained half the iraqi air force and provided things like SAM sites and anti-tank missiles without the peskt political interferience of the soviet union.
and if there was no terrorist connection with iraq, how come al quaida members were caught/killed there in the early days and terrorist activities there from day one?
the only thing i really fault bush for in iraq is that if you fight a war, then let your troops FIGHT! like in vietnam, we are letting politics and the "rights" of the enemy overshadow military considerations.

Well you maybe right on some points, but you may have also forgot who else unofficially supplied the Iraq army and al quaida.
Care to guess who that was?
I'll give you a hint. Your standing in that country right now.

Thats right, The USA supplied Afghanistan`s al quaida lead by Bin ladin him self to help fight off the USSR.
They also heavily supplied Iraq with weapons to fight Iran.
Hell, half the guys you're fighting are using your very own weapons against you.

Final point here, quit starting wars with everyone and the rest of the world might actually start to like you.
Keep starting wars and you will continue to gain your self many enemies.

 

[megaladon6]

in fact i do know, quite well, what weapons and training we gave to the afghanis and the iraqis.
oh and how many wars has the US started? going backward, the iraq war (though it could technically be argued a few different ways), i'll give you vietnam even though we really just continued the french-indochina war, and thats it. other wars (in approximate reverse order) in the time america has been around---persian gulf, iran-iraq war, 6 day war, yom kippur war, algeria, french-indochina, korea, WW2, WW1, spanish american, american civil war, 1812, franco-prussian, crimean, french-indian, and the american war of independance. ok i guess we started that one too. (yes i know i missed a couple, quite possibly even one we started. hey i'm going off of memory)

 

[85 Cutlass Brougham]

I will also say that if you think it does not matter what happens with Israel, think again. We are seen as an enemy on par with Israel, and I am sure similar incentives exist for actions against our country. The biggest problem is their ideology, which says to kill the infidel, or anyone who does not agree with them. They will even kill you if you are from the wrong sect of Islam, not just for not being a Muslim. That is the problem with Iraq today- Muslims killing Muslims. I fear that there is no fixing this, as these battles have been going on since the earliest days of Islam when there was no clear successor to Mohamed after his death. This is because he only had daughters and no sons, and so the faith was split between those who placed succession through his first born daughter, Fatima, and someone else whose relationship I do not remember. This is the primary distinction between the two major sects, the Shiites and the Sunnis. There are other minority sects like the Whabbis and the Sufists too, with the Whabbis being the most militant sect which was born in I believe the 1800's in the Arabian Peninsula as a response to British occupation. I may be wrong on some of this as I am not a scholar of Islam, so feel free to correct me as I mean no disrespect to those of a faith other than my own.

Now some of our problem is how we tend to view the world. We believe everyone can just get along in peace and harmony despite their differences if they choose to do so. Our utopia is everyone getting along in a white-bread middle class existence, breeding then dying with no war. Not everyone sees it that way. Some people need a cause to fight for as a part of their identity. They need to see others as fundamentally more evil than themselves so that they can have some sort of self-righteous superiority over them. This is why we have racial separatist movements, etc. Their religious wars against the infidels give them a reason to exist. So, to fix this, we would need to fundamentally change the self-concept, religious beliefs, and sense of purpose of these people who see the world as needing to be forced to believe as they do. However, you can't really kill an idea, only suppress it.

 

[R/T kota]

Now some of our problem is how we tend to view the world. We believe everyone can just get along in peace and harmony despite their differences if they choose to do so. Our utopia is everyone getting along in a white-bread middle class existence, breeding then dying with no war. Not everyone sees it that way. Some people need a cause to fight for as a part of their identity. They need to see others as fundamentally more evil than themselves so that they can have some sort of self-righteous superiority over them. This is why we have racial separatist movements, etc. Their religious wars against the infidels give them a reason to exist. So, to fix this, we would need to fundamentally change the self-concept, religious beliefs, and sense of purpose of these people who see the world as needing to be forced to believe as they do. However, you can't really kill an idea, only suppress it.

In a way, you kind of described your own country. No disrespect, but thats how alot of the world views the USA.

I know the problems that exist over there. We get CNN too.
My whole point that I am trying to make is Bush`s motives to go into Iraq are not what you are not what you and megaladon6 have been saying.
Yes that is what he is telling you, but as some one on the outside looking in, it couldn't be farther from the truth.
it all about driving up the price of oil so he and his family get richer.

 

[Tony_SS]

Now some of our problem is how we tend to view the world. We believe everyone can just get along in peace and harmony despite their differences if they choose to do so. Our utopia is everyone getting along in a white-bread middle class existence, breeding then dying with no war. Not everyone sees it that way. Some people need a cause to fight for as a part of their identity. They need to see others as fundamentally more evil than themselves so that they can have some sort of self-righteous superiority over them. This is why we have racial separatist movements, etc. Their religious wars against the infidels give them a reason to exist. So, to fix this, we would need to fundamentally change the self-concept, religious beliefs, and sense of purpose of these people who see the world as needing to be forced to believe as they do. However, you can't really kill an idea, only suppress it.

In a way, you kind of described your own country. No disrespect, but thats how alot of the world views the USA.

Exactly. Are you talking about US Christian citizens? I think you failed to see the hypocrisy you spoke of as you typed it out, again. They are two cocks in the same fight. Pun intended.